Two Introverts Built a Wine Bar on the South Side with Charlette Stanton and Jacare Thomas of Park Manor 75

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WLPN and HD1 Chicago 105.5 FM Lumpenradio. Hi, Chicago, it is 2 o' clock and I am so happy to be joined with you again here on LumpenRadio. It is Black Business Month.Happy Black Business Month.And today I am joined by Charlette Stanton and Jacare Thomas, the husband and wife team behind Park Manor 75, a black owned wine and charcuterie bar on Chicago's south side. But their story actually starts long before Park Manor 75.Charlette and Jacare met as teenagers and for more than two decades have been building community together. From social clubs and arts organizations to events, gatherings, trips, in all the ways people find a reason to get together and celebrate.Now they've turned the lifelong love of bringing people together in a physical space on 75th street and a place they describe as a third space for the community. So today for Black Business Month, I want to talk more about more than opening a business.I want to talk about what happens when community building becomes entrepreneurship and what it means to build a black owned business on the sell side. And how a dream that started with bringing people together becomes a physical place of your own. So, Charlette and Jacare, welcome to noseyAF.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

Yes, we are so excited to have you all.So you've been creating community for a long time through Noir Urban Arts Collective, C, Black social club, events, trips and gatherings, all that I just said, what was it about bringing people together that kept pulling you all back to want to do it over and over again?

Well, for me, I know and I think that Jacare grew up very similarly.

Like, can you pull the mic a little closer to yourself?

Yeah.

Thank you.

I think Jacare and I grew up very similarly. Where we had parents, both of our parents that remained married until they passed away.But, like, we always had these wonderful family gatherings and there was always, like, friends and, you know, culture and, you know, going to see grandma. And it was just a lot of people around.And in many of those instances, people were having a good time and people just felt really connected and communal.And I don't know, even if you're not like, directly a part of that, because of course, growing up, it's like, you know, seen and not heard and move around. Adults are talking for those sort of situations. It kind of gets you like.Like in this space where it's like, oh, man, I can't wait to get older so that I could kind of hang out with my friends and we could do these things and we can have these, like, conversations that I don't know what they're talking about. But this all seems really fun. So I know, at least for me, that this was something. This was one of the reasons why I wanted to be an adult.Now ask me now, do I want to be an adult? You know, it's a little bit different reasoning behind that, but I know from the start that was one of the things that I wanted to do.I wanted to be able to be in the company of people and get to know them and just have all these experiences.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, because I forget that that's how I grew up. Right. I was born, like, immediately after a party, so had to roll my father down to the hospital. But nah, yeah, that's how we grew up.It was always people around. And even as teenagers, like, for me personally, me and my friends, we always were the ones that kind of like, hosted the get togethers and whatnot.

Yeah, it's very impressive because as somebody who aspires to be a host like that, and I never do, I just feel like, wow, you guys are like always hosting something like.

And we're both introverts.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

It's really weird and it's so odd because this is something that I'm finding out about myself very recently. I think if you ask anyone in the world about me, it's like, yeah, Charlette , she's over the top. She's very extroverted.You know, she likes to a good time. She's kind of wild, and it's very much like, meow. I want to sit. I want to sit in this corner. Oh, people.

It's people.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah.Because I've seen you guys out and about, you know, known you guys for a really long time, see you throwing parties and, like, trips and stuff like that. You know, what's that like to, like, be zooming out and you see other people enjoying themselves because of something you created?

Yeah. Like, for me, I think it's like. I don't know, it's just, like, this thing that you just really want to do. You want to see people have a good time.You want to, like, be able to curate, like, something and see it come to life. So that just kind of keeps me trying to figure out what the next thing is. And it gets crazy sometimes because my mind is, like, all over the place.I'm like, you know what would be better? A bounce house.

Yeah,.

It is. It is very much like that. And I'm like, really reel it in. Reel it in. You're doing too much. He's like, I haven't done enough.

Yeah. Are there adult bounce houses?

I don't know. I think any bounce house can be an adult bounce house if there are adults inside.

It's like all the things you love to do as a child. You should just continue to want to do those things. Just do it the adult version of it. That's all.

I'm always afraid because they have, like, the big blowers, and I'm like, does this. How many people can be in here? Exactly.

You know what? We're going to get a bounce house for you, Steph.

And then we're going to try people.

Yeah, we're going to do it.

I'll be afraid. All right. Not too many, y'. All. Not too many of y' all coming in here. Oh, my gosh.So when did you realize that, like, doing socially, doing events socially could become, like, a physical space?

It's weird. Okay, so I think even in the beginning with Noir, there were a lot of very important players in that.So I think it all had boiled down to just something that. And that's.Regardless of what we do, whether it was Noir, C, Black Social Club, or beyond, I think that whoever we came up with, the core idea with, it was initially created so that we can spend more time with those people. And it's like, we may as well be doing something instructive. You know, we may as well be trying to, you know, make the change or be the change.And I think that that's always been, like, the supplemental thought in the backs. In the backs of our heads. So I think it was more so about wanting to spend more time with the. The collective who was doing things.And then, you know, it just turned into something so much bigger.And through those things, we met so many people A lot of those people who we still remain very good friends with, regardless of the time of our life in which we met them. And so it's being said that now we have this kind of physical space.But I think that even though it wasn't brick and mortar before the previous iterations, there's always been a physical space, whether it has been our home, whether it has been just someplace that we tend to meet up and join in and kind of congregate. But this is just a more. What can I say? Like, you can hold it.

You can hold it.

You know what I mean? Like a more. A more tangible, like. Like solid space.Like, the public would see it as a solid space, whereas the people who we've been in community with over the course of all these years already know that we have had physical spaces where they can come and, you know, be seen and feel comfortable.

I think it's interesting, though, like, right now we think about parkmanor75 as if it's like this new thing, right? But it really is what we've been doing.Like, it is now just like the manifestation, the physical manifestation of what we've been trying to build since 2003, 2004. So we've always. Noir.The intention was to get a physical space, so we actually tried to, you know, get zoning back then through Tony Pretwinkle, and we had, like, a nice mansion at our disposal on 49th and King Drive, that this lovely couple were just standing in their house and they moved away and they were like, I can, like, open your art collective in our space.

But, yeah, it didn't work out.

But, you know, and then to see, like, social. We've always been, like, working toward this point right now.

Yeah. And when you did you love, like. I guess, like, I'm trying to get around the question of, like, naming things.Like, was Noir Arts Collective, like, your first maybe, like, debut thing? Of, like. Okay. We usually host things just, like, for our friends. Now we're gonna make it official. And then. Was that noir?

I believe so, yeah.It was definitely one of the first things that Ja' Carri and I, again, along with other great friends, that we all kind of just were sitting around, you know, as we do, and we're pontificating, and we're just, like, happ having these very ADHD style conversations, you know, what if, what if, what if? And then through. And I want to say it was like, in one day, of course, because that's how it always is, right?And then it's like, squirrel, let's Go, let's try it.And I think that, you know, being able to come together kind of on a whim with just like a few morsels of information and what we thought was really nice for, you know, people of our age at that time and what we wanted to see and coming together and then kind of making that happen, that was like a big thing. And I don't know if back then we knew that it was as big as it was, you know.And I'm thinking if I had some of the knowledge that I have now and was able to incorporate that with the things that we were doing back then. Oh my God, can you imagine just all of us, I mean, all of.

Us, I think at point, all of us, right. We have a toastless all of us and none of them. But that's always been kind of our mantra is like trying to bring more and more people together.So, like, with all these iterations, we're always looking around the people who are closest to us and saying, well, who can do this? And trying to pull them in and figure out ways that we can support whatever it is that their talent is, their profession is.And how do we incorporate that to what we're building?

Yeah, Charlette , you mentioned that, you know, if you could take some of the wisdom you have now and apply it, then what is some of that wisdom?

Well, some of that wisdom is just having more like grit and stick to itiveness, you know what I mean? And then just being like organized. So it's all right to have an idea. It's wonderful. That's where everything starts.But then you have to be more calculating with how you go about getting those ideas across. And like my dad, his father in law, said to us very early on, you have to have a business, you can't have a hobby, you know what I mean?And there's a very thin line from when your hobby becomes your business, but you have to be willing to cross that and you have to put everything, everything into it. And I don't know if we were at that stage, of course, working. We were at that time having very small children.And you just have life that's just kind of, you know, going at you, you know, And I think that now, of course, the children are grown. Our children are grown, Stephanie. Wow. They're grown and gone and doing their things.And, you know, we've paid off all the bills and we've done all the things that you, you know, we were doing back then on pennies, you know what I mean? But if we had every resource that we had right now. I just think that we would have the ability to have the conversations with the people.We wouldn't be in a situation where we're like, we're just doing this little thing and, like, making ourselves small and, you know, not giving ourselves space to breathe and grow and actually say and do the things and, you know, be like, confident when we're talking to people and like, this is what we want it to look like. This is what we want it to look like in five years. And this is our ultimate goal.

Yeah.

And I think without saying some of those things and asking yourselves those questions, then you kind of stay stuck in just doing an event or throwing a party.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I think like the best example is 2003, right. When we went to talk to the alderman about being able to get this zoning chain so we can create this art collective in this mansion.What we know now, her saying no would not have been enough. Right. We would have been able to figure out. I mean, of course nowadays you got chatgpt to tell you how to do everything, but we had that back then.So you have to just try to figure stuff out.But, you know, it's just things like that, like how to navigate grants, how to navigate contracts, and things that we were more so just trying to figure out.I remember we were like spent like months trying to write a business plan and just trying to figure out, like, where are the templates for writing business plans? But all those things are things that we incorporate into everything that we do on a day to day basis now without even really thinking about it.But it was stuff that, you know, as youngsters, we just didn't know how to do that stuff.

Yeah. So Park Manor, you guys made a business plan for it?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Did it take a long time?

No, it didn't.

It didn't.

They do seem intimidating. Oh, make a business plan. You're like, absolutely not.

But you know what, it's so funny because it's like you have to make your business plan. And it's kind of hard initially because you're like, I don't know, why do I know these numbers? Why do I know the projections? You know what I mean?It really start, you know, gets you into that mind frame of, well, then this is clearly something I need to investigate and, you know, you want to. So, like, we're coming up on one year.We have had our business plan, and then the best thing that I should do after that year is to look at the actual business Plan and see in comparison, where we are. And if that isn't looking the way it's supposed to look, I need to redo my business.

Business plan. Yeah.

And I think that's the. The best move forward for me.

Yeah. I think, you know, without the business plan, like, you. You hope, you know, and it's. And you avoid the business plan because you.You're afraid of what it might reveal about what it is you think you want to do.But the business plan, actually having it in front of you, having thought through all, like, all of the different parts of it, it makes you believe that this is actually not just possible, but it's profitable and it's something that we can make work or you figure out where you need to make adjustments.

Yeah.

You know, I went to actually through Lumpin, There was an art conference or summit, we call it, called Midway.And in there, you know, there's different, like, artists, collectives speaking about, you know, doing, like, this asset mapping of figuring out, like, who knows this, who knows that, who can help us with this, who can help us with that. And to some people, it was sort of like a new phenomenon. But it feels like y' all did this naturally.

Yeah.

Like, is it through? Just, like, from your upbringing of family, of seeing celebration all the time that you all knew to, like, make asks or bring in people?Like, where did that even come from?

You know what? I couldn't necessarily pinpoint it. For me, I'm just speaking for myself now.I couldn't pinpoint it, but, you know, how something just feels right, and it's just like, of course, you know, Jacare and I are partners, so it's like anything that we do, we always have a plus one, at least to get it started. Right. But I think that Jacare is really good with being intuitive and just thinking about people's natural talents and who can we bring in?And then I'm kind of like, you know, the person that's like. And, you know, what else. You know, what else will be. Let's just. Let's tighten it up or let's, you know, make it more fun or approachable.So I think that it's always been naturally we have this kind of naturalness about us, and then, you know, hopefully. And this is me not trying to talk out of turn or speak for anybody else, but when people see us, you know, they kind of are like, oh, this is nice.You know what I'm saying? This feels real. This doesn't feel like, fake or, like, just put some. They're trying to Put us on.And I think just kind of really maintaining that sincerity, you know, allows us to ask people questions. We're very much still asking people all the time for things. Because as a new.A newer business owner or newer business owners, there's just a lot of things, you know, we can't do. You know, whether it be, you know, we might be strapped for cash or. But we. But we need a big name dj. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I just think that in us just being really frank and honest with individuals, and then people are like, we really want to see you win. You know what I mean?So, you know, on the love, on the strength, you know, we'll come out and we'll do this, and then of course we say that, but what can we do for you?

Okay.

You know what I mean? How can we help you advance whatever your mission is? How can we make people see you the way that you want to be seen? So I think that we are really.We're really always trying to. We're deeply, always trying to be in some type of collective.Even though Park Manor 75 is him and I right now, I think we always try to make it a collective experience.

I think one of the things that we've said, like, you know, constantly over the years, but especially while we were building this space, like, we kept saying, like, you know, when we talk to people, we ask them, like, one. We say, we're building this for us, right? For all of us. Right? And we asked them, like, sincerely, like, what do you want to do?What do you want to do here? Like, how does this help you? How can we make this help you? You know? And so.And that comes from, to Charlette 's point, a very sincere space about really appreciating people. We surround ourselves by great, amazing people that we sincerely love, you know, and so it's just organic for us to, like, you know, if you.If you love somebody, it's organic for us to, like, want to be around them more, but then also to be able to say, like, what else can we do for you?

Yeah, off of that, any tips for the introvert who does want to be around people that they love? Or. I mean, you guys are introverts with people all around you all the time.And as you're talking about needing community and things, I'm like, how do you do that if you're a introvert?

Yeah, it's really weird. Well, I'm a Sagittarius, so, you know, what that means is that I need people, but I can't necessarily be around them for long stints.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

However, I think that really, the most important thing is you do find people that you could be around for very long stints and want and crave to be around them even more. I know for me, it's the small talk thing. Like, I can't do it. You know what I mean?So I think if we kind of open ourselves up a little bit and we're not intimidated by being, like, frank and honest and just being, you know, humble and having conversations with people that really mean something, I think that it doesn't have to be. It can be a hundred people in a room. You don't have to talk to 100 people.

Yeah.

You could talk to one or two and just really have really good conversations with them. And it feels like, you know, something melting away. We have, like, a couple of people that come in, of course, who we just met from.Who we just met from having a bar, of course. And it's this older gentleman that comes in who I absolutely love, and we just sit and talk.And I know everything about his past, and I've learned so much about black history. Yeah. So he's just really a gem. And we just have very open and honest and candid conversations. And sometimes you.You know, you can't have that with everybody, but sometimes you're like, oh, this is cool. Let me open up a little bit more.

Yeah.

The other day, he came in with, like, a Run Jesse Run hat on, and I was like, I bet you this is an original. I'm like. I asked him, he's like, yeah, this is. This is, like, from then.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I know exactly what you're talking about. Those hats, I feel like a lot of that design back then, it's just, like, beautiful.Like, the graphic design of how that stuff was laid out.

Stitch, right?

Yeah. It's gorgeous.

He came in yesterday.Charlette was hiding out in the back, keeping to herself, you know, and I knew she just needed her space in that particular moment, so, you know, let her chill. But then he came in, and I went back, and I was like, your friend is here.And she jumped up, but then she went and hung out with him for a little while. For me, it's in terms of being an introverted person. One at Parkman 75. I think the space is designed for us introverts.In mind, the space almost kind of wraps itself around you, gives you a hug to make you feel comfortable. But I think it's this idea of making big places small. So you find the one and the two person, two people.But also just find a space and take breaks when you need breaks. Right. You know, it's like. But sometimes I might be in the middle of a conversation with somebody, and I'm like, I am done with this conversation.I can't muster up any more energy to get to this conversation right now.

Those are tough.

And it's okay to walk away and to shorten the conversation. Like, all right, let me go do this. And that's just what I do. I move around a lot.

Yeah. Say, excuse me for a moment. Just get out of there.

I'm not as.

I know you're not sad. Oh. Oh.

It's kind of like a tv.

I was thinking that was rude.

It's kind of like a TV show, and people are like, in the conversation, just walk away. Like, totally be like, all right, this is done.

They're like, this weirdo.

Oh, my God.

You announced the dream. Like, was it like, last year, Like, a few years before the doors actually opened?Like, I don't know if this will take us to the break, but what did the journey from 2022 to, like, opening day, like, teach you about even building something? Like, were you ever, like, what have we gotten ourselves into?

Like, oh, certainly.

Yeah, certainly.

So.

What it's taught us is that you can have all the ducks lined up and you could do everything on your part to ensure that every part is going to move the way you assume it's going to move.But what you quickly find out is that if it's just not you and another person, meaning that you have to worry about politics or neighborhoods or community or the city or logistics or anything. Construction, that you have at least a hundred other people who are responsible for your fate.

Oh, my goodness.

And what that means is, is that you every day have to, like, push. Push at it to make things happen, even when it feels like there's nothing happening.And there are times when we very much had to be like, okay, it's been. Because, you know, it took us three years.

Yeah.

So we had to be like, for three months. We're just not talking about this because every time we talk about it, we get upset. We're emotional.We feel as though it could potentially not happen. And we are just in a crux. And immensely mentally, it really kind of just does something to you.Like, we just are, like, we just have to go back to regular life right now, you know what I'm saying? To give ourselves a break. But that's not to say that we weren't still, you know, plugging away. It's just that we did as much as we could do.We physically as two people. And then we had to just push on the powers to be to. To kind of see what.That what we were doing was important and that it would be a benefit and that, you know, hey, you know, we, we have our money. Can you just.

Yeah, yeah.

We still operate, you know, like that as we run a space. It's like, you know, we are just driven to like, to, to continue to try to overcome obstacles, to figure out solutions to issues. Right.You know, and to be patient too. Right. You know, and wait for things to shake out and not to get all spiritual, but to have faith. Right.Like in this idea, if it's supposed to be, then is going to reveal itself in the time that it's supposed to reveal itself. Because sometimes you can't. It's.Sometimes you get to a point where there's nothing you could do but wait until you find that missing piece which might be a person. You know, it, you know, which for us. And a few, several different times, it was like a certain person that had to like reveal themselves.Like, oh, this is what I do. I actually do the thing that you need to have done. And so we've been blessed to like have like people kind of like, you know, offer support to us.Corey from leaders, Digby from nafsea, like they were the people that called to check in on us and to say keep going. And that's been like a big part. Just keep going.

And it has. And we've even had conversations, I want to say, if not with one of them, with both of them, where we would feel so.Just kind of despondent and we'd be like, you know what, we just, we could just get a job. You know, we could just go back to work. At least we know we have like money coming and blah, blah, blah.And they would be like, oh no, why would you do that.

Again? This is the ADHD kicking in. I was like, you know what? I'm just going to start an Amazon prime franchise.I remember Corey started just laughing at me and he was like, he was like, you don't want to do that. That's like work now. You want do that.

It's like, that's just work.

Yeah, yeah. And the folks on the south side, then we won't have a place to go. If you just start your Amazon prime.

Franchise and packages will be late.

Yeah. Cuz you're like, I'll go do something else. I'll deliver this later. Worst franchise ever.But what did that feel like, having people like support you like that, to like tell you to keep going?

I think the main thing, it makes me one. Just appreciative. Right. And so that is that pay it forward piece. Right. For us, that, that's what, that's how we try to be to other people.Because somebody showed us the example of like, it's enough out here. You know, there's this like, idea that people are becoming territorial or with competition.

Yeah. Gatekeepers.

Why do we have to be like that? Especially in our community? Why do we have to be like, oh, there's already a wine bar, there's already a this, there's already a that.Like, they're not enough.

Yeah.

Seriously, they're not enough of us. So when I see somebody is trying to do something, then I'm like open to being, to being able to say like, you know, keep going.Like, yeah, you could do it. You know, and to be encouraging and supportive.

Yeah.

And I don't think it's enough said even in him speaking about the people who assisted us, because there's many more as well. But I don't think it's enough said about, you know, having. Who are the people who.

A mentor.

A mentor.

A mentor.

Yeah. Having mentors. Like, you know, people throw out mentor all the time. And I think when I was younger, I was like, pish posh. You know what I mean?Like, what are you going to tell me me, like. But I think it's very important to see, see people who you have access to do the thing that you're attempting to do.And that's not to say that they, they've done it right 100% of the time or that they currently doing it right right now because everybody still has their struggles. But to see somebody not have something and then get it from the mud.

Yeah.

And then not only have one, but they have two and they're moving around or something, may have failed in their business. And then six months later they cropped up and they have a whole nother business. It's like, it's something to that.

Yeah.

That is a, that is something that I aspire to be. And I want somebody who's looking at us, you know, want to aspire to be like us.Not because we're just these, these cool kids that, you know, do all these things, but because if we did it, and it's just not to be funny, if we did it, you can also do it.

Right. And it's also like mentorship. It doesn't need to be. Like, nobody asked you to fill out a form and, like, attend, you know, an orientation. Right.It's, you know, it comes in all.

Forms, and you don't have to wait to be selected by that person.

Right.

And they don't have to know that they're your mentor.

They don't have to know.

Yeah, like, this is my mentor. Like, I'm just gonna hang on your coattail for a little while and see what I learn.

Like, yeah, it just happens. Like, just under. Yeah. Just by asking questions and making connections with people and people being open to share those things. That's really special.And I love that you all want to be like that.

Yeah, of course, too.

Do you feel like you could be a mentor right now to someone you think you've known? Got enough in there.

Well, I don't have all the answers.

Yeah.

But I am. I'm ready to mentor somebody.

Like, you know, he's like, let me out, coach. Yeah, but more so.

So in the sense that, like, I think both Charlette and I, we have, like, a wealth of consulting experience, a wealth of strategy experience, and, like, you know, we want to share that.

Right.

You know, I think growing up, like, one of the things that was kind of instilled in me is that, you know, you go to college, you get this experience to bring it back to your community. And so, you know, we have, like, all of this experience and we. And we offer it freely.Like, you know, I'm like, I always tell people, like, my consultant fee is, like, through the roof. I. I'm doing, like, what if. Whatever you need, I got you. Like, this is what we're here for, you know, and so, yeah, I'm ready to mentor.

I love it.

You should mentor me.

I feel like I paid too much for, like, all this information and knowledge to, like, not be getting the most out of, like, now we can just share it. Like, I pay for it. We all just share it.

We'll just share it. I love that you don't have to pay part. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

What if the answers you've been searching for aren't out there, but in here? Welcome to the Inner Guide, a podcast for anyone learning to step into their power and take up space in their own life.This is where we slow down, where we listen, where we reconnect with parts of ourselves we've forgotten or left behind.Through storytelling and deep reflection, each episode explores the path of self discovery from healing your inner child to learning to trust yourself again. We've got stories that can could make you cry, Stories that make you think, and yes, meditations for the wonderfully woo woo among us.Whether you're moving through change, seeking clarity, or simply learning to hear your own voice again, the inner guide is here to remind you the wisdom you need is already within. Are you ready to listen?

And just like that, we are back. WLPN and HD1 Chicago 105.5 FM Lumpenradio. We are here with Charlette and Jacare from Park Manor 75. Thank you all so much for being here with us.So park manor is on 75th Street. Why 75th Street?

Why not?

Yeah, I was gonna say that too. Why not?

I think that's a. I remember when we were. We were like, you know, meeting with community members and talking about this is just as an idea.And somebody was like, you know, sometimes people think that black folks are a monolith. Right? And so this idea of, like, wine and spirits, you know, we think that that means we're going to gather in a certain way.

Right.

You know, and so we were getting a little bit of pushback, and somebody was like, you know, why do you want to Open up on 75th Street? Why you want to open a wine bar? Why not? Why would we not want this in our neighborhood? Right.I mean, we can go through the backstory of our experience on 75th Street. Like, you know, we started hanging out on 75th street like the early 2000s. And, you know, we always mentioned Cafe Trinidad.No, I was actually talking to, like, the son of the owner. The owner yesterday. But we always mentioned Cafe Trinidad, which, you know, we stumbled upon that on wttw. Check, please. Right?And they were like, you know, on 75th street, eating great food, drinking wine. Like, you know, that was our first experience, like, really? Well, outside of, like, army and lose, Right?You know, as a kid, like, no, poor car pickup. My parents took us to army and lose, you know, but it was something about the neighborhood.

Wait, can we pause? What did you get when you went to army and lose on report car pickup day? Did you get chitlins?

Well, I did once, but I e old folks food, so. But I would usually get the chicken and dumplings. Thank you,.

Fatty.

Now I want to make chicken and dumplings. But yeah, but we were like, see, you know, I got ADHD. You threw me off.

You're all right.

75Th street was memorable, but we used to kept.

We used to keep asking each other, like, what is it about this neighborhood?

Yeah.

And when we Were like, you know, almost kind of fantasize about what it used to be like with no knowledge. You can just feel the energy on 75th Street. So many black businesses consolidated into, like, one space, and it was a feeling of culture there.

Right.

You know, and. And even to this day, you know, and sometimes I have to, like, you know, adjust my bias goggles and, like, look the street from a. And.And look at the street with fresh eyes, and I'm like, this is a beautiful corridor.

Oh, yeah.

75Th street is a beautiful corridor. If you look at the buildings, you look at the people, like, you will allow. You allow yourself to reconnect to who we are. You'll understand.Like, it's something special on 75th Street.

Yeah. I love 75th Street. I love 79. That's why I was mostly curious, like, what. Roche is like, 75th or 79th or, like, 87th? Like, how did you.Did you, like, were you driving around and, like, looking for space or in.

Your visioning, like, so quick, funny story again. You know, both Jacare and I are just very. Everything in our minds happens very fast. You know, like 200 ideas in, like, five minutes. It has to be.So one day, we're sitting at home in the bed, and it's just like, we were like, how do we get out? How do we get out of this? Like, we were paying mortgage.We were living in Woodlawn at the time, and it was just like, we want to own a business, but we don't want to pay mortgage and we don't want to work. And I know this sounds very simple and like, well, who are you all? Nobody wants to pay a mortgage, and nobody wants to work.But we were like, no, we need out.And so it was like, it would be fun if we got a building that we had our business on the first floor, and we just left, lived on the top floor, and we paid for the building in cash.

Yeah.

And so just on a whim, started looking it up, because I have to be able to see if this is a thing that can happen.

Charlette is about action.

Yeah. I'm not mad at it. I love it.

My kind of girl found the building that day and that day.

This is all within, like, an hour of the conversation starting.

Oh, wow.

I know.

This is why it's stuff.

Like, that day, found the building that day. We were still, like, all ugly in, like, pajamas. And it was like, let's just ride by. Let's just see what it looks like.You know, if that's something that we could potentially do. And this is not real. Like, we're not like, let's buy it. We're just like. We're. We're fantasizing. You know what I mean?

It's fun.

So we drove by there. We was like, this is dope. And then, like, we.Our cousin is a realtor, and we were just like, you know, for s and giggles, you know, how much is this place and what does it look like? You know what I mean? Can we at least just get in to see? You know what I mean? And so every moment of this, like, kind of fantasy play is like.And so we finally get. So we get and talk to his cousin, and he's like, oh, it's under contract. We're like, whatever. We just want to see it. You know what I mean?So we get in and see it, and we're like, this is dope.

We can see it. We can see. We can start visualizing what. All the different things that. The space.

Because we didn't know yet.

Yeah.

And we had an idea for the business. I'm not even gonna share, because it could still happen.

Yeah. Don't tell us. It's none of our business.

But we. We could imagine what it could be.And then, you know, my cousin just, like, put on the charms, and within 30 days, like, we had purchased the building.

What?

Had the keys.

Wow.

Yeah.

So.

But again, you know, this idea of fate, Right? Like, sometimes things are supposed to happen a certain way.So after we purchased the building, my cousin, who's the accountant for the building, the business now, she called us up, and she was like, did you purchase. Is this the building that you purchased? She's like, yeah.And so she started sending, like, all these pictures and these pictures of my family hanging out in the building. It just so happened, like, you know, late 60s. It was her. Her father's hangout was. Was in that building. And so. Yeah. And so, you know, his.His wedding reception was like.

Yeah.

Was it like a.

It was a.

A lounge before.

Yeah. It was called 600-00. It was like a corner neighborhood, corner store.

Okay.

And they sold. And then it was a. Where Marlon's chicken is. They sold.There was a lounge that was connected to the packaged goods store, and that's where my uncle would hang out.

Oh, man.

So now it's, you know, it's back into, like, you know, the spirit and wine business. And my uncle's picture hangs on the wall next to the bar.

Oh, very cool. That's very cool. Yeah. Because I was wondering, like, where did the. You all, like, the Wine and charcuterie. I know you guys prioritize black wine.Wine brands, right? Is that the right. Is that what you say? Wine brand? I'm not a wine connoisseur.

Variety.

Okay.

Varietals, we're still learning as well. So, you know, no errors here, but yes. Brands.

Yes. That's amazing. You all. Do you have, like a big savings account to like. Did you guys have like a.Sometime maybe a business savings account or something that you were like, we have the account for this business or to buy this building?

Well, yeah. You know, we sold our condo. Right.

Oh, okay.

So that funded part of it. And then.

Yeah. And then, unfortunately, our parents passed away. Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Yeah. But they did what they were supposed to do. Okay. And so they left us. Not. Not. Let's get rich. Woo. You never have to work.They like, no, you have to work, but you could pay your bills, girl.

Yeah. So.

So.

So we took, you know, some of that money, and then finally we were able to apply and receive the NOF grant through the City of Chicago. So we got a $250,000 grant.

Amazing.

Yeah.

What's NOF stand for? Do you know?

Neighborhood Opportunity Fund? I think they might go by a couple of different names now.

Okay.

It's something. Community Development Fund or something like that.

Oh, very cool.

Yeah. So it was started by Lori Lightfoot during her administration to bring grant money to what they would consider more blighted communities.So black and brown communities specifically were given access to all this money without having to go through TIF and all these different things that can become really convoluted. So they really par down the process.I mean, it's very definitely an extensive and crazy process, but in terms of having to deal with things, they made it very packaged. This is what we're looking for. This is the application. Application was pretty straightforward. And then you just have to submit all your paperwork.You're chosen or not chosen. If you're not chosen, you get to apply again. Anyway, all of that to say that we were given the grant. Thank God.And it really, really helped with things that we had to do. And you would say, oh, $250,000. That seems like a lot of money to be able to do things, but. And it is.It is a lot of money, but it's so much more that has to go into that.So you have to be very thoughtful with your personal money as well as with the money that anyone gives to you, even if you're borrowing or taking loans.

Yeah. It's such a Dream. Like, I feel like it's such a dream when creatives have space.And I know just thinking back at that summit I went to, there's a bunch of artists who are like, we need space. We want space. And I know y' all consider Park Manor third space. What does that mean to you? And calling Park Manor a third space.And what did you feel was missing that you wanted to create in the neighborhood?

Well, you know, one third space is old language. Right.It comes from this notice idea of, you know, you have work and you have home, but to be a whole person, you need somewhere in between where you can come and, like, really kind of, you know, be amongst people who will help you and allow you to interrogate ideas with. Right.And to grapple with different concepts and really kind of figure out how that person you are at work and how that person you are at home can become one person. Right. You know, and so you can be all of who you are or learn who you are really are inside of a third space.And so that's, you know, kind of, like, really important to us is that we're not just a business, but we're a business with real people and inside of it. And so you, you know, you come in, and there's nothing that's really off the table.

Yeah.

You know, like, hey, we're gonna be minding your business too. Because.So it might be a conversation that goes on, and people feel totally comfortable with being able to jump into that conversation without being like, oh, no, I'm. We're talking over here. Like, it's not that, you know, this is a real space.

Yeah.

And it's allowed people to do a lot of things. So we've had people from the community to come in to say they want to host something. Getting to know you, perhaps for political figures.We've had that. We've had, like, we've had a younger group of people that were like, we. We need to do a model call for a fashion.You know, fashion show that we're doing. So we set up everything for them we've actually had. And this is stuff. Not that we're doing. This is just people that, like, we're want.We want to use your space.

Can we use it?

What's the one. What's that thing that we did with the sensory.

Yeah, the sensory oasis. So on Sundays, once a month, Dave.DJ Dave Mays, he also does, like, the sensory workshops, typically with young people, sometimes older people who have different.

I don't want to say neurodiversions and.

So he brings that into the space where any one of us can come in at water towers. There's sound, physical massages, massages like that.And so that happens, like, while there's DJs in the front on Sunday doing, like, you know, usually some sort of house, deep house type music. But yeah, yeah, it's. That's part of, like, the wellness part.

Of what we do.

Yeah. And so we just. We like, anytime. And even with our. The employee.The employees, the people that work for us, like, they have an idea of things that they want to do or just things that are going to help them. Because a lot of them, as you know, people who work in the. The restaurant liquor industry are mostly artists. You know what I mean?This is what I could do. That's not going to take up too much of my brain span that I can still work on what it is I need to work on.

Yeah.

And they've done, like, a lot of our employees have done a really good job of just being like, this space would work great for xyz, whatever it is that I have going on and go off, you know, do whatever it is that you need to do. And we are just very big on encouraging and supporting. Yeah, we love that you work here. We love that you want to be here, but this ain't it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?Like, what is it that you want to do and how, like Jacare said earlier, how can we help you advance what it is and see yourself, you know, using this space to help you advance yourself faster?

Yeah. And when you guys, like, laid out the space, were you thinking about it being that way, like, in the design of the interior?

I think. Well, I think all of this is really just kind of, what do you call it? Like, it's instinct, happenstance. It's not happenstance.It's just kind of who we are. So we really put all of who we are into everything unapologetically, without, like, feeling like we gotta hold back.We're completely vulnerable in, like, the design of the space. So, like, this space is not really, like, things that you'll see other places because people don't always choose to be bold. Right.You know, and so Charlette is always like, go further. You know, because we do want it to feel a certain way. And so, you know, even, like in the painting of the space, you know, one.So our place, Parkman 75, is unique in that there are really kind of two venues in one space. The wine bar, which we call the park, is more light, open and airy. Right.And so it's really good for, like, you know, conversation and socializing with, like, a collective group. And then the manor, which is the back part, is more so our speakeasy cocktail art. And so it's dark.The hues of the colors are connected, but the room flows, like, almost like a motion. Right. You know, and, like, so you can be up and then be like, now I'm going to go and chill.

Yeah.

And so it just. I think that's just kind of like how we move.

Yeah.

You can have your grandma in the front, and you can have your boo in the back.

Yeah, I love that. That's how we should all move, you know?So for Black Business Month, I, you know, I'm curious about, like, connection between black business and black community.And so since you've spent years creating spaces for people to gather, and now you've built this business around that, any thoughts about how you might see business and community being together?

Well, I'll just start, and then you can take on from there.But I think that one thing I've learned, particularly being in the Park Manor neighborhood, is that you're not going to come in there and decide what you're going to do without, you know, the grace and the love and the support from the community.And I think this should be the case anywhere that you go to settle down and say, hey, because what people don't want is for you to take from their community and not give back to their community, you know? And what does that look like? Do you come in. Do you come in every day? You do what you have to do, and then you just kind of skate out?Or are you out there, you're speaking to people, you're listening to, to what some of the problems are that they have, not only with the business corridor, but just problems in the community. How can we help you embrace that? Who are people that we can talk to? Jacare has basically become like the Park Manor mascot out there.He knows all of the community members. He knows very much many of the police, commanders, aldermen, and things of that nature. Nature.And he's very much talking and hitting the streets and talking to all the business owners and just doing the thing. And it's a lot of things, a lot of what he does that I imagine some other business owners do do. But he's actually saying, this is Monday.I have to go and talk to these four or five people. This is Tuesday. These are the people that I need to speak to. I have these different ideas, and it's not just about Us in our business, it's.You know, there's. There's a blighted building over there. You know, can we. Can we get somebody to come gut the grass? Can we. You know, we need lights here.Like, they are very different things that he's speaking about as a business owner. That, yes, may affect us as a business, but more so he just wants to. And I do, too, but I'm just.I'm giving him his roses because he's very much out here, like, hitting the streets and not just talking about it and physically taking on the community and saying, hey, this is where we can be better. This is what we want to see. What do you guys want to see? And I want to help facilitate that.So I think that more businesses really need to be in tune with their communities, particularly in black communities. We have to come and we have to have our say, and we have to do our part to make things better. No, you can't take on everything.You know, I'm saying that the community happens to have going on.But if everybody in every business would just do one thing that they feel like they're good at and just do that, you know, then I think that it would be a benefit to the community. That's all I have to say about that.

You're welcome. I think Charlette and I were very intentional just in the way that we structured our roles inside the business.So Charlette 's operations and I'm strategy and community engagement. And so it's built in that community engagement is something that we have to do.We have a goal to be an asset to the community and be part of the plan for reshaping, restructuring, redeveloping our neighborhood.And then we're also idealistic, and we believe that the work that we do can be the model of community and business is working together to develop communities, our communities across the country. We think that's possible, and that's doable, and that's what we do.I think I'm learning a lot about how the city of Chicago works and the importance of purchasing and buying inside of our neighborhoods. If I can go aside for a second, there's something called the ssa, one of the many acronyms of the city.But basically what it is is that the businesses, the neighborhoods, they have money that goes into a pot, comes out of your taxes, and the bulk of that money comes from businesses in the neighborhood. So if you think about our neighborhoods, we're short on businesses.And what ends up happening is if we don't have money in that pot, then we can actually. The money goes toward beautification of the neighborhood. Light street cleaning, garbage pickup. Right.And so for us as business owners, we need to be engaged in making sure that money is being spent as people who are potential customers.We need y' all to come to our businesses and help fund our SSAs, as opposed to going to other neighborhoods and, you know, doing business there and funding those SSAs where they get beautiful. And then we're still. Right. Waiting for the beauty to come.

Yeah.

So we're. You know, there's a symbiotic relationship between community and business that is dependent on developing a whole neighborhood. So.

Wow. That's a whole lesson right there. I didn't even know about that.

I try to go through it real fast. It's so logical when you understand and you're able to see it.But if I wasn't paying attention as a business person who's connected to the community, I wouldn't understand the importance of how these relationships depend on each other to. To help neighborhoods improve.

Yeah. Wow. I'm, like, sitting here just sort of, like, taken back because. Yeah.Like, is that something you just discovered as you were in this process, this essay? Yeah.

There's no temporary going to meetings, meeting with the alderman and just trying to come up with solutions to, like, things that are challenges in the neighborhood, and you start to dig in and, like, oh, this is a thing. Had no idea. And most people just don't know. It's super important that we go to businesses in our own neighborhoods, whatever your.

Neighborhood is, and start businesses in our own neighborhoods.And I'm speaking, too, to younger people, because when we go to community meetings, of course the elders are there because it's their community, and they know what needs to be done. They're going to speak up, they're going to take action.But we definitely need the younger people who are buying in, or even if you're renting, whatever the case may be, if you live in a community, you. You should be going to those community meetings. I'm not saying you need to go to everyone, but you should stay involved and know what's going on.Because if you just take a look at your block, that may not be the full story of what's going on in your neighborhood.And you don't know until you talk to multiple people and you find out what's going on blocks and blocks away or what initiatives people have coming up and how does that affect you and, you know, what are the pitfalls or. Or the benefits of it.

Yeah. Because it's like, if they're. If, If.If they say, like, oh, there's no place to eat, like, that all ties into it, like, because there's no business maybe here. And then there's like, yeah, just all. It's all connected and it all becomes like a rabbit hole.

Definitely.

Geez.

Some of the, like, best neighborhoods that you think about, when you think about, like, you know, neighborhoods that were, and I won't use the term blighted, that had opportunity that hadn't been rediscovered yet. Pilsen, you look at the commercial avenue on, like, between 87th and 92nd, full tin market.All these places have SSAs, you know, and they're being funded and they're being implemented with fidelity. And that's why you see those neighborhoods developing now. If we're just going all.Only to those neighborhoods to do our business, then their SSAs are going to get stronger. Right. So when do we come home? Right. And. And take care of home?

Yeah.

And that's so important right now.

Yeah, definitely. You know, speaking of home, you two, as a married couple, you guys are, you know, married. You're collaborators.What, like, through this process, have y', all, like, discovered about each other?

Oh, my God.

Go off.

No, I think we've been married for 23 years. You know, after a while, you start to think there's nothing else that you can learn about somebody until you work with them.But we've been working together for a long, long time, so it's just. But it's now it's more so day to day, and we're learning how to operate around each other's personalities.Not necessarily even just personalities, but, like, the way that they approach things. Right. And so I think it's foolish to believe that every person can be everything, can do everything, and then try to hold them to that standard.Like, you know, I do graphic design. Why don't you do graphic design?

Yeah.

You know, but that's kind of. That's what we're used to when we go to work at 9 to 5, everybody's like, you're supposed to be able to do this.Or you're supposed to say it like this. You're supposed to do it like this.

Just.

It's like, no, we talk different. We, you know, we. We approach our work, you know, different.Like, I might start today trying to do the hardest thing and, you know, and then get all those hard things.But Charlette might have a preference to start today doing, like, things that are, like, more so like gear in the groove, like, you know, and then work our way up that way. And so it's kind of like. I think one thing we've learned.We're learned, and we are learning is to appreciate, you know, each other as individuals and our work. Workflows.

Yeah, it's different. And it. And you. And let's. And be nice. You know what I mean?Because even when you're frustrated, it's just like, I'm sure this frustration isn't with you. It's with the situation. And let's talk about it when we get home. Let's not do this. Let's not do this at work. But I think that it is.It's complicated sometimes to figure out who's good at what or who would be best suited to do something.

Yeah.

But I think, you know, at least having some type of outline for that, you know, whether it's the perfect outline or not, you can always kind of revisit it later, but you kind of get in the groove, you know? So it's like I go. I go in every day and I. I set up. I just. I'm like. I hit the ground running. You know what I mean? Like, don't play with my bar.Don't play with the kitchen. Don't. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's get everything looking nice. And Jacare, he'll be there.And I'm not saying he's not doing something, but he's doing something. Like, he's on the computer. He's like, I gotta get people in. I gotta talk to this person. I have to talk to that person.So it very much is a marriage in the business as well. We have things to do, and when we can't, we are at the end of our rope. It's like, hey, I need you. I need you.

Yeah.

And can you do this? You know what I mean? I don't mean to take you away from what you're doing, but I need assistance right now.

Yeah.

I was gonna say, like, you know, some of, like, the same ideas that we apply in our marriage have been helpful inside of the space. Like, you know, one thing Charlette .Mom used to always tell us when we used to get ready to leave, she would just say, take care of each other, you know, And I think that's the same thing in. In the business. Right. You know, it's like, be.Because, yeah, we're gonna get frustrated with situations and things like that, but to try to be aware of somebody's frustration, try to be aware of each other's frustration and also Our stamina, Right? So it might be a day. And it's like, you know, like yesterday, I think it was a day. And I forced Charlette to stay longer.But the day before, I was like, you know, like, hey, you can go home. Like, you, you know, like, I know, like you've reached your limit for the day.

Go home.

I got some more steam in me. You know what I'm saying? So I can still stay here, like, you know, just kind of being thoughtful about each other in that kind of way, too.

Yeah. Park Manor 75 you all for more information, how can we find out more? Where's the address? Can you drop that really quick?

Parkmanor75 on everything. IG, TikTok, Instagram, or our website, parkmanor75.com.

And just really quick, as soon as we walk in, what's something we should order?

I think that you, for me, if you're a meat eater, you should order our Park Manor, which is lamb sausage and Italian beef meat.

Yum.

And for that Chicago taste, we got a drizzle of mild sauce on it. And it's a tzatziki base as opposed to a piece of flatbread base.

Jazzy.

It is jazzy. If you're a non meat eater, I would suggest our Greek town, which has mixed olives and what else does that have on there?

Tomato. It has a garlic confit base that we make in house. Shaved onions and. Yeah, that's it.

And it's beautiful. And everybody who comes at some point or another will order our collard green dip, which we also make in house.And now we have a wonderful sweet potato hummus.

Oh, yum.

Yes.

All right, cool. Well, for more information, parkmanor75.com okay.

And parkmanor75 on all socials.

On all socials. Thank you so much for being here today. And yeah, y', all, thank you so much for listening and have a great day. You guys want to say bye?

Bye.

That concludes another episode of noseyAFF 31 Days of Black Business. I'm your host and friend Stephanie Graham. I hope you took something away from today's conversation and had a good time hanging with us.Be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about today's guest and consider supporting their work. You know how it goes, whether you're making a purchase, hiring them, or simply spreading the word. Listen, who doesn't love a referral?It truly all makes a difference. Quick thank yous go out to Queen Lex and Freddie. Bam Bam. For the noseyAFF theme music.And Emma McGoldrick who hooked me up with the COVID art and branding. Shout out to the partners and supporters for this series. You could check them out in the show notes as well. Super grateful for a partner.

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That's the show Friends until tomorrow. Stay curious and take care. Bye.