Serious Training for Everyday People with Sean Armstead of Phenomenal Fitness

Hey, friends, welcome. And welcome back to nosey AF conversations about art, activism and social change.I'm your host and friend, Stephanie Graham, and we are in the last stretch of the 31 Days of Black Business series. And I gotta tell you guys, I'm getting sort of sad. This has been such a wonderful project.Everyone is so brilliant and I'm just so inspired and I've learned so much. I.Guys, I just love being black. Okay? I love it. It's my favorite thing in the whole wide world. And let's talk to you about today's guest.So today's Guest just trained 33 people last Saturday. Yep, 33. Starting at 4 in the morning. Mind you, while. Let me speak for myself while I'm over here fast asleep. Okay.Sean Armstead is a former Marine Cor Corps infantry officer who served in the Persian Gulf. And he's been running phenomenal fitness since 1997. His slogan has never changed. Serious training for everyday people. Which sign me up.I'm down for that. I like that, you know. So listen, we're going to talk to Sean. Here is my theme song. And guys, welcome to nosey af. I'm so excited for you to meet Sean.A phenomenal fitness.Gotta get up, get up to the whole world. You a winner, winner vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you doing, how you doing?What you're doing and who you are Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself, don't wreck yourself if you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie Graham is nosy as Sean. Welcome to nosey af.

It's my pleasure to be here, Stephanie. Thanks for having me.

Yes. First, you're a retired Marine, Correct?

I'm a former Marine. So I didn't do 20 years. I did eight years.

Okay. And it's called a4 Marine.

Well, former. Oh, I'm a Marine. I was an infantry officer, but I didn't retire in the Marine Corps from the Marine Corps. So retiring.In my mind, when you say retire, you did 20 years. Okay, I did eight. And I served in the United States Marine Corps.

Got you.

As an infantry officer. I served in the Persian Gulf war as an 81 millimeter mortar platoon commander.High angle of fire weapon system with a max effective range of 3,700 meters. And I had 79 Marines and three Navy corpsmen in the Perdnagar.

Wow. Thank you so much for your service. That sounds.

Very good. More for me than I did for it. It had its intense moments.

Yeah. I have to ask you Know how everybody's doing boot camps and there's all these like army boot camps. Is that how.How much of that is like the real thing?

So to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't know unless I witnessed it. But to answer the question, I think what makes it real?Back in the day, I would inappropriately maybe offended that someone is using a military front when they never served. So I couldn't get down like that. I can only put myself through what I profess to say.I am so I can feel confident that I'm kicking the legit information. And so in the military and Marine Corps, as an officer, you go through it from a very physical perspective and you learn.Part of the reason I got into fitness is because I felt very comfortable and appropriate in teaching and coaching physical development because I experienced it on very high levels and as real as you can get to prepare for battle and war. When I see others do it and they put the garb on, for example, to be honest, if you weren't even an infantry, I had a problem with it to myself.I didn't run my mouth about it. But I'm like, you were admin pog. You didn't even do infantry. And now you coming out like, you just, you hated pt. You didn't even like to do pt.You didn't do it well. But now you selling tickets that you that guy, you that that girl.But now I don't kick it like that because I've learned the hard way that as if I'm hating on you for whatever reason, I justify I'm not loving on me enough.

Yeah. I just always want to ask somebody that.

Yes and no. Yes and no. The early version of me. Yes. But I think that's not appropriate thought process for me. It's like, get down with what you getting down with.They want to kick it like that, let them do it.

Yeah, that's true. Just like, let me mind my business.

Come on now.

Sean, you've been running your business for almost 30 years.

Yes, along with my co owner. The co owner. I co own it.

Okay.

With my partner, Maria Armstead.

And you all have been in business for 30 years?

Yes.

Wow. A married couple business.

We used to be married, but we're still partners, so we've never not been business partners.

And you've been in business for 30 years, the two of you, which is a long time.

Yes, it's a long time. Yeah, it's a long time.

Congratulations.

Thank you, Stephanie. You know, quite the journey.

Yeah. What have you learned about staying in business? That you didn't know when you first started in 1997.

Well, I think staying in business, you have to. That I didn't know because I couldn't see the future. And I'm not trying to be funny, to be honest with you.You really have to know who you want to serve with, the type of people that you want to serve with. Because, see, the way we do business, you can't do it by yourself.Because the footprint of phenomenal fitness, the smallest footprint is 5,000 square feet. It's in between 5,000 and 8,000 square feet. And when you got square footage, you have overhead.When you have overhead in a south loop, you know, downtown ish location, you gotta have people to work with that you blend with. They have to respect you. You have to respect them just because you have diversity.And I got white trainers, black trainers, Latin trainers, gay, straight and otherwise. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that you all mutually agree to do this deal together at a very high level.If they hate you, quietly, it ain't gonna work. If they don't respect you, quietly, it ain't gonna work.If they don't admire you and you admire them, you ain't gonna be real, real good at it, because it takes two to make a thing go right type of thing. That's what I learned that I did not know then because there's certain things, you know, gotta have paper, I gotta have quality.You need to have passion, you need to know your stuff. But from a leadership perspective, what I have found in the last 10 years is that you need to have a team where there's mutual admiration.And only then can you have a place with a majestic vibe that people really can get with.

Wow. So how did you build your team over the years?

Well, it. I didn't do it by design. I did it by default. And now I would know better how to do it by design.But essentially, the trainers that I have vibed with deeply, from an admiration, and I'm not even saying personally, but from a mutual admiration, mutual respect. It's like admiration, respect and appreciation. And each of them were drawn to phenomenal.And I did not see them initially as this big asset acquisition, but it blended in that. In so much as they respected me, I respected them, and admiration and appreciation grew from there.

Yeah, that's really awesome. It.

It really is. I. I now know more as to how I'm going to do the search for additional staff. But, yeah, I know more.

What made you want to even start a fitness business?

I'm going to tell you the truth. I was in corporate in the early 90s, and I come from the Persian Gulf War. So I was a hot commodity from a human resource perspective.I was black, and I was fresh out of the military, out of the Persian Gulf War, which was a popular war. And it was like, they put me front and center as a beacon of what this company has as far as human resources.Like, we support the war, we support him. Let's pitch him up and make him this little beacon of who we are from a positive perspective. So I got a lot of attention.They gave me a big reception. My mom and I. I come in through the door. They're cheering and clapping, and the camera's on. It's like lights, camera, action.And it was corporate advocacy, so to speak.

Okay?

And I got a promotion. And I was like, on the. On the rise. And this white officer was cheering me. I was single. A colleague was single.A white female who was outstanding at what she did. We had no interaction from a personal perspective. It was straight business. But we used to have lunch.She put her arm around me professionally and was coaching me, mentoring me. She knew what she was doing. Her dad was a VP on the property side. I was on the life side, and she really helped me. And.But this guy, my mentor who was looking out for me, who actually led, was catalyst for my promotion. He was like, I can't support you if you basically, in my talk, if you kicking it with her, I ain't kicking it with you, and I'm done with you.If you're dating her, I'm taking my support away. Now, mind you, this is a man that mia, he promoted me on the fast track because he was a Marine. I was a Marine. I was an active Marine. And he just.He wanted me to be part of the mix. But if I was connected to her intimately, her, white, me, black. He can't kick it with me.And I'm thinking, if this guy thought enough of me to promote me on the fast track because I was a Marine and I looked squared away and I could help his company that he takes pride in. Apparently. He's a director level. If this guy has an end for me, if he thinks, first of all, we won't even attract each other like that.We didn't get down like that.

Yeah.

And he's gonna take his support from me if I. If I date her. Oh, my God. I can't get down in this environment because this. This ain't for me. And I. That was an enormous catalyst.I changed My mind, because I'm gonna be honest with you, I wasn't into that insurance stuff anyway. Yeah, I was passionate about martial arts fitness, physical fitness, physical development. Passionate about that from the age of 12.That's one of the reasons I joined the Marine Corps. Because they were supposed to be the tough ones.

Yeah.

I didn't know about the seals and I didn't swim, so that wasn't gonna work at the time. So I knew and I said, you know what? You gotta have the balls. Pardon my French.You gotta have the courage to stand up for what you believe in and to do what you need to do and what you wanna do. I was making $40,000 a year. It was in 1990, and I had full benefits. And for my family, that was the holy grail.Nobody except my mother and auntti, out of 13 siblings had education. None of my first cousins had education. None of my second cousins. It was me, my mama and auntti, uncle, aunt, maybe a cousin who passed away.But anyway, I digress. So I was like, fitness is gonna be. And I didn't know anything about any idea of what to do at all. So it was zero for a long time.

Wow. And so then you were like, you know what? I'm out of here and I'm going to start a fitness business.

Zero from scratch. Didn't know nothing. I didn't have a certification, didn't know anything about business, didn't know anything about the personal training business.I just knew I knew about physical development from an experience perspective.I did not know all the professionalism going into in terms of certifications, client acquisition, business infrastructure, in terms of expenses, debt, debt to service, finance, revenues and investing and startup capital and things of that nature. Had no idea. Debts of pay, getting a loan and paying it back.And I threw myself in it and started finding answers when they were thrust upon me to get various small missions accomplished. So if you line up all the tasks and concepts to owning a small business and running it successfully, I learned it. I got help, I got help.None of my best friends to this day was a graduate of Harvard Business School. And he helped me write my first business plan. We stayed up to the wee hours of the night, on many nights asking his questions.And essentially it was a put together a business plan that you could give to a bank and get money. So my first loan was 30,000. I later borrowed, we borrowed 1.4 million to do a deal, acquire a property and gut it, rehab, et cetera.But my first deal was 30,000.

What did that feel like to get your first. Your first deal.

Oh, my God. It was like, I cannot believe that I can get a deal, do a deal, and try to pursue my dreams based on something I have passion for.I thought you had to go to school, do something that you think is. Is a. Is. Is viable to be looked at positively.If somebody wants you on their team so you can work, you get education, and then you try to get a job and get benefits and try to have a life. I never knew anybody that successfully had their own business, had their own idea.It's something that they loved and had passion and they were gonna create. I didn't know about entrepreneurship and entrepreneurism. I didn't know. And that was the biggest thing that he kept telling me to burn the ship.Cause I worked for a trainer, and I was the lead trainer. At least I was the lead in terms of the most clients bringing in the most money.

Okay.

Because I worked for a white brother. And he was like, I didn't know black people trained.Cause I was bringing in all these black folks from my college and all, you know, where I worked at the previous company and things of that nature. And he was like, oh, my God. So he didn't have to give me clients. I was bringing them in. So I was like a rainmaker.And I've been a rainmaker ever since. And that rainmaking ability, because people. I was authentic.They associated me with physical development by the way I looked, by the way I talked, and by the way I taught. And it was just a 1, 2, 3. And this was in the early 90s or 1990. And people didn't.I didn't know about personal training because I would have took it up in school. Kinesiology, biomechanics, things of that nature, I didn't know.And that's the thing about education, is that young people have to be exposed so they can get an idea of what they have passion for. Not just something to do just because you think you're gonna make money at it. I mean, if that's your default, then so be it.It beats kicking rocks down the street. But ideally, passion, high interest, motivation, inspiration, dedication, and being prepared to go through the struggle.So you don't know quit, you don't know not do it, you don't know ain't gonna go. Things like that. I get up every day looking forward to doing it. I'm at 63 and started when I was like, 33, that type of thing.

Wow. And so now here you are with phenomenal fitness and phenomenal fitness.You use this Phrase, successful aging, what does that mean to you when you're young?

So from a physiological perspective, biological perspective, all the physical science that apply to human movement, sport, competitiveness, but just human movement, it's hard to break you. You're elastic, you can fall, you bounce. As you age, you get more brittle, you get fatter, tighter, weaker and slower.And what happens, you find so many people that are fatter, tighter, weaker and slower and they accept that as the aging process versus negotiating the terms of the aging process based on being intentional, skillful, willful and persistent about pursuing the appropriate amount of youthfulness that you earn on a daily basis by your strength work, your mobility work, your conditioning work, your body awareness work, things of that nature. So it's like you are trying to be appropriately youthful by design.I can't do sprints on the treadmill or high end sprints on the concrete anymore, but I can jog and shuffle. I can do things that are age appropriate, such that I avoid or reduce my exposure to injury and I bolster the benefits of physical development.So successful aging is aging through the decades, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond. That you can do so and you can compete with the appropriate counterparts.Like I compete with people in their 60s and 50s, not compete physically with people in their 20s and 30s. And that's not, that's not appropriate.If you're looking to be highly competitive and you're approaching your genetic ceiling and you're, you're, you're, you're appropriately interacting with your potential and what you can be versus all you can be pertinent to what you can do. And for example, you don't see 60 year old running backs in the NFL. Yeah, that don't exist. You barely see 50, 40 year old running backs.So age is a real thing. So in order to do it successfully, it has to be appropriate to the individual such that benefits are high. Risk management is appropriately addressed.

Yeah, you know, we've met through our mutual friend, your client Sheri.And one of the things that I know that she enjoys about being your client is this idea of the focus on age and just sort of taking into account that we are aging. And I thought that that was like a really smart way to think about fitness and have someone such as yourself think about that for their clients.I know phenomenal fitness has like a series of pillars. Can you talk about those? Is thinking about age in those pillars?

Yes, always, because it's structural integrity. The pillars are as follows. Structural integrity, movement, skill, work capacity, body composition and power. Power is the newest Wonder.But structural integrity speaks to the hard aspects of a being.Not necessarily the hardware and the software, but particularly the hardware in terms of the bones, the ligaments, the tendons and the muscles and the fascia, that special tissue that's interwoven among organs and interwoven throughout muscles that provide support. So all of those hard aspects of structure are different through the ages.Okay, as you're younger, you have more hydration, you have more water content, you have more elasticity. Again, you have more bounce to the ounce.As you're older, it's more dry and brittle and you are more easy to break if the force placed upon the system exceeds the tolerance of the hardware. The software, on the other hand, isn't as connected to the hardware.So for example, when you're in your 20s, let's say there are a hundred possible connections from the nerves to the muscles as you age. Think of 10% reduction of that as you age. So the. You're just not as connected. Therefore you don't have as much keen to coordination.You're not as connected from a balanced perspective, et cetera, et cetera. I no longer can get on roller coasters. At 63, I just don't like it. Yeah, but at 43 I loved it. At 33, I thrived on it.At 23, I couldn't get enough of it.

Yeah, it.

So, and then movement skill.Movement skill is as it does based on what you've earned through practice and what your body can tolerate based on the chronological, biological, functional age. Those are all three levels people have to earn the right to be youthful as they age.So movement skill pertains to how the person can successfully do it. The more risk, the more reward, but also the more potential for an injury or for a stoppage. Metcon or metabolic conditioning is work capacity.So work capacity is conditioning work. It's muscle movement, heart and lungs. And then there's body composition. Fat mass to muscle mass is the. Is the heart of it.So the more muscle, the less fat. If it's highly functional, based on your design, based on your vision, I feel that body composition is a very individual thing to a great degree.For example, you have people nowadays that take pride in being more robust in body fat. And like, I'm still beautiful too, well, that's fine.But it you're predisposed to more disease, the more body fat you have too, and the lower ratio of muscle.So you can love it, but I don't think it's appropriate to be in a manner where you're more predisposed to disease because it's a painful, it can be a very painful and a reduction of potential for me. So for us, most folks to come here, they're looking to be less body fat, more muscle and functional in their joints. So that's how the pillars go.Structural integrity, movement, skill one capacity, body composition. And then power is the rate of strength expression.So younger people tend to be more powerful than older people because speed is a component of power, the rate of strength expression.

What do you wish people understood about getting stronger and taking care of their bodies before they start experiencing limitations?

If they really understood and cherished and appreciated the wonders of the human body, that most of the diseases that were experienced in my bloodline were preventable diseases.So what I would wish they would understand is that diabetes, type 2, most heart cardiovascular disease, some cancers, quite a few cancers can be minimized and avoided.If more muscle was on their bodies, if they pursued physical development in a robust manner such as they worked on muscle development, conditioning, mobility, flexibility, a lot of youthfulness, reasonable youthfulness can be experienced. And the pillars lead into the principles mindset, muscle, metcom and modification of lifestyle.And that correlates to the actual habits that one can pursue chronically, persistently to successfully age.

You know, personal training, it feels like it is such a luxury service if folks can't afford to get to you. Any suggestions of things they can do on their own or does Phenomenal Fitness offer group classes and things like that?

That is an outstanding point. I think. Phenomenal Fitness founding, Phenomenal.The foundation, the, the, the discovery, the development was based on serious training for everyday people. That's been a consistent slogan, serious training for everyday people. And in that semi private is what we offer.

Okay.

So I, I've, I've, I, I trained 33 people on Saturday from 4:00am to 11.

Wow.

And right. Because I had nine people, eight people, seven people here and there. Right.

Uh huh.

And the price point is such that most of our clients train two days a week consistently. And so that paradigm of business offering allowed us to be open throughout the pandemic.When revenue was halted, we were closed down for three months.And again we're in Southfield, we're not on the south side or west side where the footprint of real estate is less because of the location and what's desired. What the market, you know, the market bears, you get what the market will bear.Yeah, you know I'm not on, we're not on the Gold coast, we're in the South, Lou. But it's still a hefty price per square foot.

Oh, yeah.

So ours is relative to, to. To the average price of, of private training, which is about 121 30.Our, our offering is in is like on average $50 a session and can be lower to train with other people with a trainer. One trainer's work with two or three people, four people on a separate sheet of music.Now me doing an extraordinary amount of people a couple of hours, I get by with that based off my skills, experience and knowledge and my ability to train multiple folks at one time. And they feel it's appropriate and progressive such that they're able to pursue their goal focus in a powerful and consistent way.So you have to understand what people need and what people want and be able to deliver that in a way that they want to. They want to be there.

Yeah. Can you speak to the culture at Phenomenal Fitness?I could imagine just like listening to you talk, knowing that my trainer is, you know, as experienced as a marine, has a passion about fitness. And if it's like my first day showing up at Phenomenal Fitness, it just sounds so intimidating.Like, I just picture the videos of like, you know, there's like the different movies where maybe somebody's trying to get fit and you see them like, you know, telling their trainer, excuse me, and like running off to the bathroom to like, throw up. What are we getting when we show up?

Well, you, you're gonna get, to be honest with you, you're gonna get love. Right? And I mean that.And obviously not knowing someone and saying you love them, you're like, you know, get the heck outta here, you know, and you know, I'm not saying heck. It's another, it's another letter. Yeah, that's in your, that's in your description.

Right.

But you have to treat people in a way that it can't be too hard and it can't be too easy based on who they are today. Because if it's too hard, it's not engaging. If it's too easy, you want to run and get out of there.So you have to engage, educate, enhance, empower, and encourage. And so you have to have the experience and the touch to where you teach, lead and inspire.And they actually feel like they want to invest in that service because it can help them grow and achieve. If you get sick 20 minutes in, it's the trainer's fault. If you're feeling like, you know what, I'm good.And a lot of times my people see, but in, in the 55th minute, then I've done my job minute 59, minute 55. Minute 50. Such that. Well, let's cool it down now. Let's. Let's make movements happen that allow you to feel like you're back.Back to a person that can walk out of here and feel happy about the time and money they spent. And I've, I've gotten to that place through a lot of study and mistakes.Some people did go to the bathroom early and have to go and wanna go and not come back. Shame on me. Because you do not get another chance to impress or to. What do you say? You never get a. You don't get a second opportunity to.

Make a first impression.

To make a first impression to where somebody wants to be part of your culture. You do not get two chances. You just, it's just, it's rare that you do.

Do you have any tips of like what folks can just be doing at home?

Oh, absolutely. So, so this, this is a challenging question and a wonderful question.It's a wonderful question because I have articles and I have content that are going to be part of our new website.

Oh cool.

Where you can actually I want people to be able to go to the website and have access to information, exercises and methodology that is programming like what to do, why to do it, who should do it, when should you do it.

Right.

In today's marketplace, social media is huge in order to get your brand out there. But also part of that brand development is information and people need to be able to come to you for solutions and not have to spend money.To me I feel, and I've been remiss with that from a perspective of completing the, the, the, the availability of my, of our concepts, what do you call it? Of our intellectual property, so to speak. Right.

Yeah.

And part of that is because I train eight to 12 hours a day.

Yeah.

It's long hours and I still have a young one at home and my energy is much less and I realized that because it, it would make it for 8 to 12 hour days on the floor and then 2 to 4 hours of admin and content creation.And I'm just getting back to the space where I'm motivated to do that to facilitate having that type of information that's free and accessible from 1 the website and 2 Instagram, Facebook.I haven't been privy to get busy on TikTok, but the little bit of social media I've done has been on IG and Facebook and that's where in this new website that's about to drop to get that type of information where you can actually be guided on what, when, where, why and how.

Yeah.

For no cost.

Yeah. Content is so annoying, isn't it? I feel like it is the worst part of running a business, Stephanie.

It is because I have mixed feelings, like, why should I put my stuff out there that I've spent money on, that I spent time on? But here's the thing. I know someone, a dear friend of mine who's just done amazing on social media.He went from nothing to over a hundred thousand followers in a few months.

Wow.

And I see what's.

What.

What the wonderful things that it's done for his business. Whereas me, I got all these clients I'm training all the time. I'm constantly training clients at a high level.I have very little social media and I've developed my book of business through referrals.

Yeah.

You.You, you not going to come in here and ask about me and say you heard about me on social media and I want to get with you, I want to meet you, I want to work with you. Mine is quote, unquote, old money. Right. It's all on referrals from happy clients from years and years.

Yeah.

And that's not, to me, that. That there's more opportunity. Well, it's, it's nice. It's. I, I'm proud of it quietly. And I. And I'll share that with true humility and gratitude. But.But the next level would be to break through that hard stuff. That's a struggle for me. Like, it's like training, Stephanie. Training.You get benefits through accepting, negotiating, and being intimate with the struggle. And you just can't get ahead to new levels of life. Being comfortable all the time.

Yeah.

I mean, my work is challenging. I'm tired at the end of the day, but it's work. I know. And I still have an audience for it.I really want to break through and break barriers for myself. And for me, that would be a social media participant.

If I could just, for a quick second, an idea that came to mind. Have you considered maybe doing like, one of your classes on Saturday and having that film live and like.

Absolutely.

Maybe us at home could pay to do the class.

Absolutely.

That could make sense.

Absolutely. I could teach all type of stuff.I mean, I'm not one of those cats that's into taking the shoes off and having bare feet, even though I think that's powerful.But what I teach, my approach is very legit, and it's based off of science, it's based off of biomechanics, it's based off of Movement science, movement skills. It's old school. Old school meets the masses, put it that way. My approach is an old school approach that can get with the masses.You know, in your 60s, your 50s, your 40s, teenagers. I got. I had to always have an interesting amount of young people every summer. Cause I'm teaching them strength for their sport.So I will have a hockey player. I have a. Mainly football, basketball, baseball and swimming, tennis, you know, like that.

Very cool.

At the end of the day, I personally want to be one that teaches, that inspires, that, that helps with problem resolution.

Yeah, I'm glad that you do. Thank you for being like that.

That's. That, that's what I do here when I'm at my best. When I'm at my worst, I'm kind of. I may be on the ropes from low sleep and high output and I'm. I'm.But I'm still trying to fight the good fight that bring quality. If I'm outside myself looking at the session, I feel proud of what went down in terms of communication, attention to detail, connecting with clients.Cause sometimes clients, sometimes I can be. I can have thoughts that are inappropriate in terms of me being frustrated because clients.Because if you have five people, two people may be buddies and they start talking, or somebody may see somebody they haven't seen in a long time, they start talking. But what I've learned, that's part of our community. That's one of the beauties of our community, that there's a.There's an exchange of ideas and likes and catching up and community that can interfere with the session. Because they didn't come here to get their ass kicked. They came here to develop.And they also came in for community because when they leave it, it could be by themselves the rest of the day, that type of thing. So they see someone they relate to and relate with and they just come from the same type of vacation, they want to hear about it.My personal opinion feels like maybe you should go have coffee together and let's train. But you have a different mission today.

Yeah.

So training is just part of that mission. Socializing seems to be a consistent part of your mission too. So having to manage that, where they still feel respected, appreciated and served.I have to do it.

Yeah, I know. I remember I used to take like this water aerobics class. And the teacher, he was always so excited when I came because he's like, thank you.Because you pay attention. Because like the. Everybody else is like, they're doing the exercises, but they're like doing it While talking or. I'm not talking to anybody.I'm just paying attention. Mostly because I didn't really know anybody in the class. But yeah, it just made me laugh.

When you say that's powerful. But I, if. Okay, here's the thing. If you, if I cannot engage you, I am not going to keep you. And there's three Rs.There's revenue, there's referral and revenue. Referral. Those are two of my favorite. There's another R. Returning. Retention.

Retention. There it is. Yeah.

Correct. It's revenue, referral and retention. Those are the three R's. If you're constantly disengaged, I'm not going to have at least two of those.Revenue and referral. If you're appropriately engaged, I should at least have revenue and retention.

Okay.

See, referral is another level of engagement and referrals usually have to be. You either have to be doing a spectacular job to that person or you have to be intentional on getting your referral out of that person.

Okay.

But for sure, revenue and retention. I will not forget the retention piece again because I'm so connected deeply to revenue and retention.I've been blessed by referrals, but I don't, I don't promote them intentionally and overtly.

Yeah, they be.

They come as a happenstance. They come as a byproduct of revenue and retention.

Yeah, absolutely.

But, but the big shots, the people are earning big revenue intentionally, methodically, by design, go for the referrals.I, I've been that person, but I had more people on staff where I could get the appropriate amount of revenue because I had eight trainers instead of two trainers.So if your overhead is X and you design your business to have optimal six to eight trainers, but you have three, then now my revenue, my output is a significant part of the revenue.Then I'm working at the business and not enough on the business to facilitate the growth necessary to have the eight trainers and the 500 clients versus several trainers and X revenue. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

The phases of a 30 years, right.

Is it more money, more problems?

It can be when you buy motorcycles and cars and paying for family and stuff like that. But it doesn't have to be more money, more problems.It could be more money, more opportunity, more opportunity to serve, more opportunity to love, more opportunity to have assets that you earn that could be part of generational wealth. I could see that too.

Yeah. You know, you've built a business around helping people become stronger. Who or what has made you a stronger business owner?

Being able to, first of all, being mentored by people that, that my zeros are dwarfed by their zeros. So they've been more successful in a way that I admire and respect. It could either be financially, it could be real estate, it could be just love.They, they're like, they're, they're wonderful people. That, or they can have all three. They, they, they have wealth, they've accumulated wealth, but it's quiet.My, my, my favorite mentors are financially successful, but they're not financial. They're not flashy and flamboyant and they're very generous.They, they, they're generous with segments of our community and, or population or, and, or family and they're, they're not flashy with it, but they, they have freedom. They have freedom. And I've been blessed to be mentored by an interesting amount of people in that, in that vein.So when I refer to myself as I, I write it in lowercase and when I write my first name in lowercase and that's to remind myself of humility, of gratitude, of, of being cool with my levels of struggle. I think I have some of the most amazing mentors that you can, I wouldn't even be in business if it wasn't for a couple of, one in particular.Just the way he looks out and teaches and coaches and wants nothing in return. It's amazing. So financial success, the interpersonal character.Success, interpersonal skill, interpersonal relationships and communication and just a high elite level character such that they're generous with time, money and intangible wealth. You know, they have intangibles that are very high in asset to me. Yeah, high end assets to me. I've been privy to that.

That, that's amazing.And it makes me wonder like for folks who are, you know, for the person out there who's like, I, I like fitness, you know, I like to make fitness videos. People ask them all the time, like, hey, would you train me? And they think maybe they could make this a business.What, what would you say to, to them?

You have to, it's one thing for a couple of people to ask you to train them. It's another people, it's another thing that 50 or 100 people want you to do it.

Yeah.

So if you can get a couple of people to do it and you think that those people are, they have substance pertaining to a foundation that you can multiply because a couple people don't pay the rent, it has to be repeatable, reproducible and of substance to be sustainable. So it's it's. It's relevance. So if you think a couple people make you relevant, then what makes you sustainable, relevant, what makes you.What allows you to sustain that relevance? Such that you can take either the online business or brick and mortar. So a lot of times today you hear about the fading of brick and mortar.You look that if you, you know, if you're familiar with the Chicagoland area that we're in, like Gold coast, downtown, so many vacancies. Well, it ain't in the West Loop. The West Loop is popping.Popping with people, popping with business, popping different than south side and west side in terms of certain socioeconomic opportunities and output and such.But what I would say to someone that if you could get a couple people, if that can suffice, if that can serve you and your family and your aspirations 10 years, 20 years forward, God bless you. So that means that they're paying a whole lot of money. That means you got a few people that are paying hundreds to be hundreds per session.Whereas my business model is such that a few hundred people shared between a few people as trainers and staff and overhead that my model sustains my family right now. And if I want more, I have to do more. So I'm at a point in my career where if I want more, I know how to get more.But for 30 years, my paradigm of business and communication and skills and knowledge has got. Has. Has allowed me to put kids in college, have property, having the things that I hold near and dear, that I hold value. So your values mean a lot.And your business needs to align with your values such that you can live some dreams, I think.

Yeah. You know, as we close, like, what do you want Phenomenal Fitness to become? I know you're doing the new website. Like, you know, where do you.

I wanted to run without me. I want Phenomenal Fitness to eventually get to where I was before the pandemic. I was on the verge.We were on the verge of me coming off the floor a lot more and growing trainers and staff based on my philosophy, my principles and my pillars. I want to get back to that point where I could not train.I could be off the floor for a month or two or three or four, and the revenues stay in a way that is sustainable, is relevant, and has potential for growth. Not that when I'm taken out of the equation, the business fails and falls. I don't, I don't want to be part of a business like that.

Yeah, definitely not. I don't want you to be part.

Of a business like that. Easy to do.

Hmm.

But it's also the same amount of time it takes to. To have that business. To me, it's the same amount it takes to have the other thing that you actually grow people on both sides of the equation.Staff, clients, and then that other aspect business. So those are the three. It's owners, it's staff, and it's clients.And to me, when this is all said and done, I want to either be able to pass it on or I want to be able to sell it and never have. If I choose to work another day in my life.

Last thing before I let you go. How can the community support you?

Well, it's what you hear people say. Follow us on social media.

Yeah.

And share our content with others. That's how they can support.

Okay. Awesome.

And that's real.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know. We're happy that you're here in Chicago.You know, I live in Chicago, so it's nice to know that your service is available to us in the South Loop. You know, we can go get brunch. Come to you after the brunch spots.

Most definitely.Because people don't realize how they can eat and do some appropriate physical development to further the fight against fatter, tighter, weaker, slower.

I'm going to be saying that over and over. Fatter, tighter, weaker, slower.

It's what the human does and is without intervention.

Yeah.

As time go, that's awesome.

Thank you so much for taking care of us as we age.

People are paying to play.

Oh, my gosh. Well, I'll put all of your information in the show notes and I really appreciate having this conversation with you.That concludes another episode of nosy AF31 Days of Black Business. I'm your host and friend, Stephanie Graham. I hope you took something away from today's conversation and had a good time hanging with us.Be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about today's guest and consider supporting their work. You know how it goes, whether you're making a purchase, hiring them, or simply spreading the word. Listen, who doesn't love a referral?It truly, truly all makes the difference. Quick thank yous go out to Queen Lex and Freddie. Bam Bam. For the nosy AF theme music.And Emma McGoldrick who hooked me up with the COVID art and branding. Shout out to the partners and supporters for this series. You could check them out in the show notes as well. Super grateful for a partner. Hello. That's the show friends until tomorrow. Stay curious and take care. Bye.