The Book That Sat on His Hard Drive for Ten Years : Kevin Chung on We Are All Creative

Hey, friends, it's Stephanie.Who else would it be?Welcome back to nosey af.Before we get into the conversation, I wanted to tell you about a party that is happening today as this episode releases on Thursday, October 29th in the year of our Lord 2026.My friend Kevin Chung has a book called We Are all creative.It is 52 weeks, each one with a quote, an original piece of art Kevin made himself, and a story about a real person and something you can actually do to support your creativity.And here's what I love.This book sat on Kevin's hard drive for almost 10 years.He pulled it back out, went, went through it, took out the folks who turned out to be problematic and gave it new life.So today is his launch day and Kevin is throwing a party at 3:00pm Eastern, 2:00 Central.Anybody is welcome to come and you don't even have to buy anything.Kevin's giving out even free copies of his book.So go to weare allcreative.com to RSVP and I will put the link in the show notes.It is a virtual party.Show up.You are welcome.So this conversation that you're about to hear was my very first time ever doing a LinkedIn Live.You and I, we gotta figure out LinkedIn.Like, are you even on LinkedIn?If so, you know what?I'll put my LinkedIn in the show notes.I'll put Kevin's too.So we did this LinkedIn live, right?And you'll hear us figure out the technology in real time.We, we get into leaving the country, why celebrating your own work is so hard and what you can actually do with five minutes.So without further ado, please welcome Kevin Chung on nosey AF as we talk about his book, We Are All Creative.

Hi, I'm Kevin Chung and thank you for coming into this live.And I wanted to bring in my good friend Stephanie Graham, the host of nosey AF podcast, because she's a nosy person.

She loves.

To ask questions and dive deep into things.So I thought she would be the perfect person to talk to me about my upcoming book, We Are All Creative.So I will let you take it from here, Stephanie.

Yeah.Thank you so much, Kevin, for letting me figure out what all of you are doing is about.So, yeah, so you have your book, We Are All Creative.And let's first talk about, you are currently living in Costa Rica, right?Right.Like in paradise.I feel everybody is going there.How, how long have you been there, first of all?And how is it going.

As of June 1st of this year it's been one year.So a year and a little bit however many months from June to now, that is how long we have been here.And it's.

Been.

Definitely a journey, for sure.

Yeah.Because you are coming from Florida and you had spent 17 years working in corporate tech.And then, you know, you have your house, you have your wife, you have your beautiful dog, you have all of this, like, American dream.And then you all are like, we're about to get out of here.What prompted that decision?

Yeah, so actually it all started from my wife's bachelorette party.She went to Costa Rica.What year was it?2023, I think it was, or 2022.And she had like an amazing time.She went all over.And when she came back, she's like, oh, you gotta.You gotta come and check it out for yourself and see what this place is all about.I think you'll love it because I'm into nature and food and all that stuff, like healthy eating.And I came the very next year with her and we had a blast, as she knew I would.And during that trip, I'm like, oh, wouldn't it be amazing if we moved here someday?

Wow.And.

Little did we know that a few years later, we thought we were going to come when, you know, closer to retirement as an investment, we can have an Airbnb bread and breakfast or something along those lines and live it out like years, decades, probably in the future.But it all got streamlined a little bit because of our feelings of the election in 2024.

We.

Did not like where we thought the country was going to go.So we decided, why not do it now?

Okay.Because I was like, you know, you can go anywhere.Like Costa Rica could have just been Yalls party spot.You don't have to, like, make it your residence.But what was it that made you say, okay, let's just live here versus just making it being like a vacation place that you just frequent all the time.

Yeah.So the nature is one thing.I love to grow things.We had a big garden back in the US I had the backyard and my wife had the front yard.I. I grew like, fruits and food and stuff, and she grew a lot of, like, flowers.So we had a very great system there going.Plus the people here are very nice and amazing.We also found a place that was close enough to my parents in Florida and my other family in Florida and my wife's family in Puerto Rico.So we found this perfect spot where we, you know, didn't have to go too far if we went to Europe or anywhere further.It would be like a whole day just to get there.But we found a great spot where everything just lined up for us.That doesn't mean it's perfect for everyone else, but we found a place we wanted to see if it made sense together.And so far, so good.

Yeah.If you could, like, walk us through a little bit about just like, okay, y' all have decided to leave.Lots of Americans, I'm sure.You know, there was sort of like, not a mass exodus, but there were people who are like, we're out of here.We're out of here.And even now, people are like, you know what?When my kids get older, we're out of here.I just keep hearing this.We're out of here.When families or individuals are thinking about leaving, like, can you give us, like, a little breakdown of, like, what is it that we're actually saying when we're like, we're out of here?

Yeah.I mean, we really sped run the move because December, we're like, oh, Trump won.And we're like, oh, this.What are we going to do about that?We don't necessarily need to do anything about it, but we're, like, thinking.And then on Valentine's Day of last year, we decided we were just like, okay, we don't like where this is headed.We saw, like, just a month's worth, not even worth of what would be happening in the US as he took over again.And we're like, okay, we're just going to streamline this.What do we need to do?So we made a list of all the stuff that we wanted to do or needed to do.

In.

Order to make the booth.And there were a lot of things.We had to get a lot of documents.We had to sell ours.So sell a bunch of stuff.We had to sell our house.We had to get rid of stuff.And, you know, there's so many different things that go into a process like this.And, I mean, it was just like a whirlwind.So a lot of it is just.We have no idea how we did it, but it.

Just.

Happened because we had the intention.And we're like, what do we have to do?Break it down?Well, like, the smallest pieces that need to get you to where you want to go, and we just checked it off one by one.

Yeah, this.

Is really satisfying.I don't know if you've ever done anything where you have to, like, this huge.I'm sure in movie or TV production, there's, like, checklist of all the stuff that Needs to happen.So I think it's very similar.Like, just.Just tackle it as it comes.

Right.But you're like, leaving the country.It's like, it's making me, like, my nervous system upset even just thinking about it.Like, oh, my gosh, all that you have to take place.Like, were you.I want to ask, like, if you were nervous, but, yeah, were you nervous?

I think different stages brought different levels of nervousness, right?

Yeah.

So one of the things that's most nerve wracking is getting all the paperwork ready.Because the way that submitting for residency here works is all the documents have to be done within the prior six months to submission.So if we missed any deadlines.

On.

That process, we essentially have to start over on that specific piece of paperwork.So we had to get, like, literally everything together at one time.That's definitely one thing.Another thing is we submitted a lot of paperwork to the state of Florida and we had to wait back and we never got one of the documents back.They lost to someone.So.So we had to drive to the state capitol, which was like four hours away, in turn, get in person.So just.

So there's a bunch.

Of different things like that where it's like, nerve wracking at the time.And looking back, you're like, oh, I can't believe you did all that to.To make this happen.Because if you want to make it happen, you have to go through the struggles.You have to get over the nervousness and just, you know, just do the things that are necessary in order to make the change that you want.

Yeah, for sure.And I'm sure that those deadlines, those like, different, like, markers are really good.Especially, like, I think of myself where I'm very motivated by deadlines that I cannot control.So, like, yeah, those kind of deadlines will definitely get you going for sure.

Yeah.And selling the house is another thing.Like, is anyone.

Going to buy?Okay.Yeah.

Because we started the listing process just as, like, the housing market was starting to go down.It was like getting much harder to sell because when.

We.

Bought it, it was like a feeding frenzy.Right.We did it right after the pandemic and houses were selling in, like, hours, Right.Instead of like days or weeks or months, they were selling like, almost same day because we went to look at places and later day that day we found out, oh, it's gone.So.

It was a little.

Bit different when we were selling.We didn't get as many offers as we thought we were going to get.So we just had to keep the hope and tell the universe this is what we want.And eventually, it just happened.It actually happened on my birthday as we were in line at.In Space Mountain, because we were doing, like, a farewell sort of journey.We got the news from our realtor that we got a bid on the house on the day.I'm like, oh, my gosh.Thank.

Oh, yeah, that's amazing.Especially going on Space Mountain.Well, congratulations.Y' all have made it, and you all are there, and it's very exciting.And I know that in your own work, you're working on a memoir about, you know, how all that took place.So that's really exciting.But let's talk about your book, We Are All Creative.Because.Is that true?Are we really all creative?

Yeah.So I think there's a misconception of creativity being.I have to be an artist, right?I have to paint, I have to draw, I have to take photographs, I have to do videos and stuff like that.But creativity, I think, is more of how you think.So how do I take all of the knowledge I have that exists in the world and combine in new.In different ways to fit whatever your goal is?So if your goal is to make a painting, obviously that's creativity in the traditional sense of how most people think about it.But creativity is also used in all sorts of aspects of life, like in government.I'm sure there's creativity happening all the time in different ways in architecture and science, and any.Any specific place you can think could use creativity.I think there's a possibility for it to exist.

How did your book come about?

Yeah, so I originally wrote the first version almost 10 years ago.I don't actually remember what the date was, but I was working at that time on a blog and a podcast for artists and creatives.And.

What was the second way that.

I came about?It was it's.We are all creative.This is just like the second edition, I guess.

Got it.Got it.Okay.

Yeah.So I was trying to figure out, how can I constantly keep in front of people, show them the knowledge that I have, the stories that I know about, And I just made it like a daily practice to figure out how to write about something I'm passionate about, which is creativity.And what I did was I just, like, picked quotes as the thing I'm going to talk about, because quotes.Many people like to collect and talk about quotes or show how it means something to them.

And.

I wanted to show these quotes exist for a reason.Here are people who exemplify this quote.And I also wanted to create, like, A piece of art that went along with it just to show off my own creativity in that process.So along with the stories, I also created like a specific piece of art for all 52 pieces in the book.

Wow.You know, you said something.Creativity is something you're passionate about.How come?

That's a good question.I'm actually not entirely sure.I think there's something about something probably inherent in people that wants to explore, discover, think through things in different ways.Because if you don't, you.You kind of have this life where you're stagnant.It could be in the similar vein of I just want to take a break and let stuff happen to me versus going out and making stuff happen.And I don't know if you're into astrology or whatever, but.Or the difference types of creators, but I'm a manifesting generator, which means I think of ideas and I execute on those ideas.So.

I have a bunch of.

Different ideas.Yeah, Human design, not.

Astrology,.

Human design.And I just need to do something.So I think that's probably one of those universal, I don't know, human things that just happen to fall onto me.

What are some of.In the book?There are 52 weeks.Can you talk a little bit about how the format of the book is?

Yeah.So I don't remember, honestly, if I picked a specific order for the quote or if I.

Just.

Essentially, just as I created them or wrote the stories, I just put them in place.So throughout the book, there are different lessons in different aspects of not only creativity, but how to live life, how to know, explore how to be creative, how to be curious, and all those different aspects of what it means to be creative.And, you know, I just went by one by one and you know, what inspired me, went into the book.I actually don't remember.That's a good question.I wish I would have written down, but I did not.

I know, right?I feel like just like that's like a whole other process, right.Documentation and like archiving about, like, what you got going on so that you can actually get these dates so you can be like, how long ago?I personally, like, I feel like I. I don't know if it's.If suffer is the right word, but I like, I'll say suffer from, like, time blindness.Like, I don't really realize, like, when I did something, so.Yeah, but we do know that you did the first version of we are All Creative.That was like the podcast in the book before you moved to Costa Rica, like you said, 10 years ago or years ago.Not 10 years ago.No, you did say 10 years ago.I'm right.

That was around 10 years.

Around 10 years.Around 10 years,.

Yeah.

But what did the original version, when you did that get right and, like, what did your lived experience teach you?So I think,.

Yeah, I think the original version, what it got right, was just exploring different aspects and different people who embody certain things.And I think there's a lesson that you can learn from almost everybody that you meet.They don't have to be famous.They don't have to be rich.They don't have to be anything.But I think we can all learn from other people.And that's one of the things that I wanted to show.And I wanted to take famous people who have quotes, because there's a reason these exist, and explore those specific ideas.So I just wanted to combine those two things together.

And so, like I was saying, each.What we were saying each week brings together a quote, an original artwork, and a real person's story and an invitation to make a shift.How did you decide?Especially when there's, like, a practice of collecting quotes that, like, we all, you know, collectively share, how did you decide what quotes are in the book?

I actually had, back when Evernote was still a popular thing, before notion.

Took.

Over its place.

I know RIP Evernote.I know they're still around, but.

I used to collect them from various spots.And there used to be.I don't know if this is still happening.There was somebody who sent out a quote a day.I don't know if he's still doing it.I think his name is Something Jaeger, and he would send out a quote every day.I'm like, does this apply to me?Is this something I can write about?Is this something that sparks my interest?And I just found, like, 52 of the ones that I resonated with at the time.And something that I learned while going back and looking over the book this time around is that some of the people that I was trying to shine an example on became problematic over time.So over time, many of your idols will show not to be your idols.

Oh, they certainly will.They certainly.

Will.I went through and changed all the ones that I thought, in my personal opinion, needed to change.So there was, like, J.K. rowling is a little bit problematic there.Who else?I think Kanye west was another person in there that I thought, I like his music, but I don't agree with his personal stances at different points in time.So there's, like, a few examples where I'm Like, I should probably go back and change it.And there were, this is both the quotes and the stories that people were like, should I keep this?Should I not?And if I don't keep it, who is a new person to exemplify a similar thing?Or who is a person that has a quote that's similar to the person?So it was a little bit of a process of how does this actually reflect my current day version of my thoughts?

Yeah, I, I get that I have so many problematic people who've, who've fallen to the problematic lane or have been problematic that I hear of, but I still have their like, quotes into my head or they brought me to certain points and you're just like, man, why'd you have to mess up?I hate that.So the website that you've created for the book, it encourages readers to start with the season that they're in.The questioner, the transitioner, or the builder.And first of all, let's just say, can you shout out what the website is?

It's wearellcreative.com very easy.

Okay, great, great.So, yeah, so the questioner, the transitioner, the builder.What season do you think people have the hardest time admitting that they're in?

Oh, admitting that they're in.

Yeah.

I think Transitioner is probably the biggest one to admit you're in because it's hard to make change.Right.Like in my particular instance, it was extremely difficult in hindsight, like I did all of that.Right.You don't believe you can do it until you start to do it.So I.

Think.

But every one of those is like a different stage of the creative process.I believe you can be in any of those stages at any particular point in your life and you might switch between them at different points.And we're always in a stage where we're either questioning or transitioning into something or we're trying to build something.So I think depending on your particular stage of life and what you're struggling with, I think that is the one that's going to be the most difficult to admit because we don't necessarily always want to make changes.

Yeah.What, what stage of creativity do you think you're in right now?What season are you in?

I'm probably still in the transitioner stage.

Okay.Yeah.

Since it's.

Only been.

About a year.A.

Year?

A little bit.Like how.What does it mean to live in a place adept to learning Spanish, trying to speak Spanish especially?Like, my particular challenges aren't necessarily in business or in that particular realm at this stage.It's more of how do I change my life to better fit where I am, who I'm surrounded by?How do I make connections with people where I don't necessarily speak the language that well?It's very difficult.So I think I'm still within that transitioner phase.

And in the book, I know it's, like, sectioned off.You know, it sort of reminds me of, you know, devotionals.Like, are you familiar with, like, spiritual devotionals?Like, they're dated, you know, that you could read the one that's maybe for, you know, today when we're recording this October 14th.But you could really sort of start anywhere in the book and just sort of flip a page.I imagine that your book is in the same way.Like, you could just sort of go to any page and sort of start and just sort of see what comes up.Is that correct?

Yeah, I think, because I didn't write it in a specific order.For you to go down a journey in a specific path, I think any particular week can resonate with you at any given time.So if you want, you can just scroll to the quote, see what it is.Oh, does this make sense in my stage?No.Whatever.I'm going to skip it for now.Let me come back to it later, potentially.Or you can go through it from page one all the way down to the end, or you can.

Stock.

Backwards.You can go from 52 to 1.So I don't think there's necessarily a specific order that you need to go through.So whatever resonates with you in this stage in your life and you're questioning your transitioning or your building stage, does it make sense to look at this?And if it doesn't, you can ignore it or you can still go through it with it, because I think every quote and story represents something that can help you in whatever that you're transitioning into.

Yeah.You know, you actually.You had this book, you know, sitting on your hard drive for a long time.What was bringing it back was bringing it back to life.An act of creativity in itself.And what made you ready to share it now?

Oh, yeah.So sometimes our best ideas don't necessarily come from within.They come from an outside source.So you and I both belong to an amazing community called the Interweb with Amelia Ruby.And she has this program that she was doing called Close Business Friends, where everybody who's in it has a creative project that they're working on.

Okay.

And there were two parts of this.The first part, I tried to work on my memoir, and That I decided was the wrong choice because it was going to take way longer than I originally anticipated.

So,.

Okay, how.

Long was the program?How long was the program?

The first one was a few months, and this one was more streamlined, I believe.

Oh, got.

It.

Okay.

So for the second part, it was.Anybody who was part of that first version could come back.And we're just going to try to do things in a little bit different way.Is just expanding on it.And I actually decided to just shift what I was doing completely to the book because it.I had it.It was quicker than finishing a memoir, which.

I.

Don't think I was going to be able to do again.So I chose that because of circumstances that were not my own choosing.I'm like, what can I do?Because I want to do something.I love this program.What is it that I can do?So I'm like, I literally have this book that I haven't done anything with in years.So how is it that I can revive it?What needs to change about it?And how can I do things a little bit differently from the way that I was doing them the first time to make it more of a success?

Yeah, See, I'm telling you, there's something about those external deadlines.

Yeah.I'm Obliger, I think, is what it's.

Called.Yeah, that's.You need.

To have somebody else tell you what to do.

Yes.Yes.The Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin.Yeah.So if you're watching or listening to the recording, that's like another personality assessment.I don't want to, like, say that.Thinking it's like, something that's not like, you know, it's not, like, for fun.Well, it could be for fun for entertainment purposes only.Just for, like, legal reasons or whatever.But yeah, it's a.Like a personality quiz.An obliger that Kevin is and I am means that we do need external deadlines.Like, I need, like, I need, like, a personal trainer.Like, I need somebody else to, like, keep me on track.

Yeah.So actually, the thing was, like, this particular session of the project was going to happen with an ending.It's actually ending next week.So.

I was like,.

Oh, what can I do to actually get this book launched and get these people who are in this program to help me get.Streamline it so that I don't.

Push.

It back to next year.Like, I didn't want to keep on pushing it back.Pushing it back.

You.

Can actually push it back indefinitely.I can keep on tweaking it.I can make changes.Like,.

For sure,.

The best.

I can.

All the time.So I think it's always good to have a deadline, even though it's not like it doesn't need to have a deadline.Right.Since I'm self publishing, I don't need to do really anything for it.But I wanted to push myself to make this happen within, you know, a reasonable amount of time for this particular cohort.

Yeah, I definitely get that.And you know, we are recording this live on LinkedIn, so that way when we hear the replay back or on the podcast feed, you all know that.But I do want to say hello to Tamisha Campbell, who is in the building, and Becky Mallencamp, who are in the building.So thank you for being here.Yeah, shout out to y'.All.And Tamisha also is a four tendency lover.And so I asked in the chat if they wouldn't.If they wouldn't mind if.If they're like, look, it's none of your business.I just told y' all I like it and leave me alone.But if they don't mind, I would love to know what their tendency is.So let's see.So if someone picks up the book and reads one week's entry, what do you hope that they do next?What would you like it?For them to actually use it or, you know, rather than feel inspired for five minutes, you know?

Yeah.So that's one of the reasons I actually came up with this thing called a Reflection Companion.And so what this thing does is.

I love that name.

I didn't want to insert it into the book itself because one, I would need to do a bunch of more editing within it.And I thought this is better as like a side piece that you don't necessarily need to do.It's like really an optional sort of thing.And it has like a question, an action that you can take, and notes, and a space for you to kind of reflect on it.So hopefully if you're going to get the book and pre order it before October 29th, which is the day it comes out, you will get the Reflection Companion.And I probably will sell that as an add on post launch.Just because, you know, that's one of the reasons I think this is not really necessary.But one of the things you can do as part of your marketing is attach certain things to deadlines.Right.To create an urgency.It could be considered false urgency, but I think one of the incentives of doing this thing is you have to push people to make a change.Right.And this was one of the ways I found to do it.So there's there's every week is reflected in the companion.You can go in there, see if that question makes sense or the action is something you actually want to do or leave any notes that you have for any specific week.

Very cool.Uh, and Tamisha said they are also an obliger.So we got a bunch of obligers here.I feel like they said that.That's like maybe one of the biggest ones I thought.But don't quote me on that.But yeah, it makes sense.We can all like three peed it and give each other tasks to do and have to check in and I will do it.That's.

Actually something we originally started off as like accountability buddies.

Yes.And we needed each other to give.

Ourselves goals for whatever.So I think that's one of the reasons we're definitely connecting, especially as a bleishers, to like, you tell me what to do so I don't have to tell myself.

Exactly, exactly.And that is true.That is how Kevin and I met.I forget about that because we've known each other for so long.As you're.As you're talking about your journey, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember when you're household.I remember when you guys had to drive back down to the, to the state and do all those things to set yourself up for this move.So it's been a little minute.I love that.

Yeah,.

It's been good.Yes.And I feel like our friendship has expanded from just accountability buddies to, you know, doing lives and checking in and being in all the groups together and.Yeah, it's great.

Yeah.

So wait, let's actually just sort of talk briefly about the launch party.And you spoke about, you gave us some even just advice about when we're marketing things, to attach things to deadlines to create sense of urgency and all that.So yeah, talk about that.Like, what have you built for us?We have a launch party coming up.There's tears.Tell us about that.

Yeah, so the launch party is something that many people do and one of the reasons that we do things is to celebrate what we've done.I think a.

Lot of times.

We can do things and be like, what's the next step?Right.What do I need to do next?How can I grow?How can I do better?But we don't give ourselves the opportunity to celebrate the things we've done.So regardless of one, if one person buys it or a million people buy it, I will celebrate on that day.And I hope many people come to join me.And I want to celebrate it in a way that's kind of interesting.So everyone can bring their own, like, what are your challenges or what are your dreams?And how can we together as a group, whoever's coming, really enjoy this moment together?How can I help you in this particular way?And, you know, everyone has their own thing that they want to do and hopefully we can start our way towards, you know, doing that thing together.

Yeah.Could you give like an example of like one of the quotes in your book?Do you like?No one offhand or able to share?

I can actually just pull like the first week.Yeah.

So I have a sample.

Copy of the book and it is available on the site.We are all creative and right next to the pre order button at the top it says read a sample.And if you want to see what this book looks like and what the kind of feel is, you can check it out.So the first week is if we don't know what we're looking for, we're never going to find it.And that's by Scott Dinsmore.And I think a lot of people, when they're struggling to figure out what is my purpose in life, it's hard because the world is filled with infinite possibilities.So one of my favorite things to do is just experiment and figure out, is this something I like to do?Like, we can have our expectations from our parents, from people on the outside, or from anywhere.And if we try to live up to those expectations, I think our lives don't turn out the way we want them to.Right.So I think in order to build the best life, whether that's a creative life or not, we need to really understand what it is that we want and we need to really work our way towards that versus, you know, letting life happen to us.I think that's something else I brought up earlier.It's just like, what is it that you want to do?Because after you've lived on the planet for 70, 80, 90, 100 years, what is it that you did?Do you regret anything or do you did.Did you do the things that you said you wanted to do and if you didn't, there's no time where you're too late.Right.At any point in time in your life, you can decide, this is how I want to move forward.And I think everyone should really evaluate what it is that they want.

Yeah.And I think that that's really good to say that, you know, you can always change your mind and at least try, you know, because it's better to try and decide that I don't want to do this or this isn't working out how I hoped and then pivot from that versus not try at all, you know, that.That, like, really.Oh, my gosh, I really hate this saying, but, you know, and they're like, oh, at the graveyard.This is where dreams go to die.I really hate that saying, but I guess I get it, but I still don't, like.Because, like, how do you know you don't know those people?You don't know those people if their dreams died.

I. I like it as an inspiration.I did actually write about that.I don't know if it's.I don't remember if it's in the book specifically, but I've definitely written about it before.

Yeah.You know, let's talk about your.The whole idea of, like, you know, leaving autopilot.You know, you and Anita, your wife, you know, y' all made that decision to change your lives in February of 2025 and move out about six months later.What was the hardest part about turning an idea into an actual decision?So this could even be for anybody.You know, that's like listening.That's like, you know what?I am good at hair.Actually, let me get up and go get my beauty certification.You know, like, what.What was that that turned the idea into a decision?

Yeah.I think one of the things that you have to do is, like, state it out into the world, right?Because if it.If it's kept in your head, you don't have to be held accountable as obligers.I think if we tell somebody, if I tell my.My parents, my family that I'm going to be moving, they'll be like, okay, yeah, whatever.

But.

I'm still gonna.I still stated it onto the world.And people can only help you on your path to where you wanna be if you tell them about it.If you hold it all in and think, you have to do it by yourself.Like, everything by yourself.You.You stack the weight and you're like, what is the Sisyphus?Who's pushing the boulder up the hill?Right?And it.

Doesn't.

Feel like it's going anywhere, but if you enroll the help of other people, you tell them, you have them keep you accountable, like, if they know somebody.One of the fun examples in the book was we were trying to figure out, like, who we should work with as, like, a realtor.And I think the week after I told my brother about moving to Costa Rica, he's like, oh, one of my clients, he's a chiropractor, lives in Costa Rica, and He talked to him about it.And that person that his clients introduced us to our eventual realtor, and our realtor introduced us to our eventual lawyer.So.

Oh, wow.

The only way for stuff like that to happen is if you, like, make an intentional stop letting stuff happen to you, bring it into the world, and then the world will conspire to help you.

Yeah, that's really, really good advice because, yeah, you know, when I did, you know, I just finished that series, the 31 Days of Black Business.I keep saying it's such a long title, but the 31 Days of.Is the long pace of it.But I feel like once I said, oh, I'm gonna do this, even because I got booked for a movie job, like, right in the middle of that, I was like, I already said I'm gonna do it.You know, I gotta, like, now execute.You know, I can't walk it back now.So, yeah, there is something about when you do say things.I mean, obviously I could have said, hey, guys, this didn't work out this time, blah, blah, blah.But yeah, no, that, like, that external motivation really, really helped.And yeah,.

Speaking of your journey there, you also had your own version of a launch party post series being completed.So congrats on that and thank you for.

Hosting that.

That was an amazing time.

Oh, yeah.Thank you.Thanks so much for coming.Yes.You know, celebration is hard, and launch parties, that kind of whole thing is really hard.It's something that I'm personally thinking about and, you know, contemplating a little miniseries on because, yeah, I'm not good at that and the idea of parties.And I know, like, even another facet of your practice is the creativity.Parties, like, partying.Partying is your thing, it seems, Kevin, you love a party.You're hosting parties all the time.Pookie, your dog just had a party.

Yeah, I love certain types of parties.So, like, we're talking about going out into the real world with a bunch of people I don't know.Not that much of a fun party.But if we're either have a purpose, so if it could be a bunch of people you don't really know, but you have a purpose within the party that still makes it fun.Or if you know a bunch of people just because you know them, that also makes it fun.So I think certain types of parties are definitely fun.And this.These particular parties are fun for me because we're all coming together around a specific thing, which is being creative.How do you get unstuck?How do you get off autopilot?How do you like, celebrate the things that you're trying to do and let's try to, like, make our lives better together.Right?

Absolutely.Yeah, definitely.Being, like, in community with others, you know, that are like minded.A question I had for you, though.You mentioned that you used to think folding your podcast in business meant you had to quit, and you've since changed how you view that.What helped you understand that?The ending.That ending something doesn't automatically mean you failed.

Yeah, I think this is like one of those things, cliches.And it's like, nothing is a mistake.Right.It's just a lesson in learning.So my particular lesson in learning was either I didn't talk about my things enough for people to have noticed, or I didn't, you know, do things, I didn't find the right people for it, or I didn't, you know, do certain things.And none of that means all of that was a mistake or a failure.It just means if it's the wrong time, is it the wrong space, I didn't find the right people.So there's all these circumstances.They're completely out of our control.And I think everything that we do, regardless of if it's a success or failure, can teach us and help us grow into what we want to be.Because I don't think there's anybody in life that is a success all the time.There's.I don't think that's like a thing that is possible.Right,.

Right.

So I think the only thing we can do once something doesn't go the way that we wanted it to is to reflect on what happened and decide I can either improve it, I can change directions, or I can use the lessons in a.In a different way that is.

Completely.

Unrelated.But, you know, I still have the lesson of, is this the way that I want to do it?No.Right.There's a bunch of different things that you learn from everything you do.

Yeah.And again, at least you tried, you know?

Right.

Yeah, that's.Yeah, that's always a good reminder to just, like, keep trying.Um, you know, thinking of, like, stuff that you might have had to let go of.What did you have to let go of besides your belongings?Like, you know, when you were leaving to come to Costa Rica.

Yeah.I think one of the biggest and hardest things is the people in relationships that you leave behind if you make a move.Because you can, obviously, in this day and age, call people, have video calls, or you can go back and visit whenever you can.But having those people close by all the time is definitely one of Those things where you're like, man, that's.Let's.One of the pieces that if you regret the thing that you did.I'm not saying I regret it.I'm just like.One of the aspects of moving here that is difficult is not having people that you can meet in person directly to give you inspiration, to give you a space to, like, meet, have fun.You know, all those things that were.Were great about the place that you used to be is no longer there, or it's harder to.To really connect in the same way.

Right.Especially, you know, as now is people are like, coming out of, like, post, you know, Covid era with like, the shutdown and stuff, and people are wanting to be like, in real life, community and stuff like that.Have you made a community in Costa Rica yet?

I think we're trying.We had my dog, Pookie.He had his 12th birthday party just this.

Past Sunday.Yeah.

Yeah.Thank you.I'll give him your regards,.

Please.

Because you've seen him many times.Yeah, I think that's one of the ways.Anita, my wife, loves to host parties and people and gatherings.So this was something that she planned.And I just help in any way that I can, especially since she's fluent in Spanish and can communicate as well as she can.It's difficult for me in this particular regard.They know people know English, but obviously it's not their first language either.I don't want to enforce the idea that they need to speak English to me.

I.

Just need to adapt myself to where I am.So that's one of the things.And then,.

Yeah, they're like another way that I've.

Yeah, I've adapted is there's somebody I met through a group where we do language exchange.So.

He's.

He's from here and he practices his English and I practice my Spanish with him.I've met his wife and his kids, and we've had dinners together and stuff like that.So that's a lot of fun.

Just.

Trying to figure out any.Any way that we can really try to meet people is like what we're trying to do.Right.And make those connections.

Is the language exchange.Like, just like people trying to learn.So it's free.Are you guys, like, paying each other or as you guys just.

This was.I think there was a Facebook group where.

Someone.

Announced, I have this what's up?Group where we're exchanging language with each other.Does.

Anybody.

Want to join?I'm like, oh, sure, yeah, that sounds great.Yeah.

Anybody really wonderful.

Who is in that group?Could say yes.And I think we're actually hosting another gathering Saturday.So it's, you know, it's one of those things where it doesn't happen as often as I would like, but, you know, do it as often as I can.

Yeah.I feel like my little celebration series I'm thinking about.You're gonna have to come on there because you are having parties, you're having people come over.Like, you are really doing the thing that I aspire to do.That's like a whole other.That's like a whole other conversation.But still, I'm, like, noticing.

Yeah.If you have a dog that's having a birthday party, we got tons of ideas for you.

Yeah.Oh, my gosh.What's one small shift that someone could make this week if they feel like they're living on autopilot?

I think one of the things is, like, what is the thing that you've been pushing off and making excuses about?And what is the smallest thing that you can do to start getting there?Because every large journey starts with the smallest step.We can't just jump from here to a book being published.Right.You have to.What are all the steps that need to go into it and just figure out the first thing that you can do to stop making excuses and start, you know, intentionally doing the right things and write things in quotation marks.Because, as we said before, you could be doing the things that tried to get you on the path, and in retrospect, they could have been the wrong choices, or they didn't work out the way that you thought they would, but you still made the action and you learned a lesson from it.

Yeah.You know, that whole, like, we can't just turn around and have our book published is sometimes, like, really, really tough.You're just like, man, I want it right now, but.

It's.

Just not possible.

Yeah.Instant gratification is something that the modern, like, Internet and all the stuff that happens on it makes you believe that people are successful off the bat or came out.

Of.

Nowhere or whatever.But I think everybody's journey, who.You either got lucky, you know, somebody, which is also kind of its own form of luck, or you.You did all the work behind the scenes that nobody saw.

Yeah, for sure.I've thought that a lot with my own, like, maybe, like, a few years ago, had knee surgery.And so, like, thinking, they're like, I.

Forgot about that.

Yeah.And I could get right back to just, like, working out as I was before.And it's like, no, dog.You can't do that it's not how that works.Like, it has to be.You have to like work back up to this.Like, it's not just like, you know, easy peasy, but easier said than done, I think.You know, what are your thoughts on how someone can make room for creative work when they are exhausted from, you know, maybe having a full time job or other caretaking responsibilities, having a partner, those responsibilities, you know, people can be depleted.Like, any ideas to.For people to like keep making work?

Yeah, I.

Think.And using their creativity.

I think one of the things that I did for myself was before we made the move and all that stuff, I was doing all the stuff for me in the beginning of the day.This is a lot harder if you definitely have to take care of people.But for me, it was easy to just cut off the chunk of the day before I work for anybody else.Do anything that's not for me.What is it that I can do for me?And that doesn't necessarily need to be for business.It could be for life.It could be for anything that you actually want to do.That's one place that you can do it.But also there's like pockets of time throughout the day where you're either scrolling TikTok or wherever your favorite platform, Instagram, whatever you're reading on substack, it takes up time.That is one piece of action that you can take during that period of time that would have taken you no time to get you where you want to go, but you decide, I want a break instead.So you have that choice.You can do that, that's fine.

But.

Are there moments in time where you're saying, I don't have time, but you are reading, you know, whatever, like gossip or whatever, you're watching.

Like.

Trash TV or whatever during that time, then you could have been doing.And it doesn't need to be a long period of time.It could be like five minutes, it could be one minute.Like, what is it that you can do during that period of time?And my favorite example I actually interviewed, I think it was Andrea Jones.She was, she, she had just given birth and she's writing her book.

And.

The way that she did it was she was dictating her book while her baby was napping instead of writing because she didn't have her hands.

So.

Like, what are ways that you can adapt to your situation to do the things that you want to do?Do you make voice notes?Do you like type on your phone?Do you, what are the things that you can do in the pockets of time?That you have in order to make progress.

Yeah, that's such a, that's such a great tip.Because it's not like we're all not sitting in like our reading nook with our Matcha and journal, like beautifully writing in our notebooks.We all have, like, real stuff going on out here.

Everyone has a life that they're living.

In.Yeah.For real.

Always have the time.

Yeah, absolutely.What is something that you believe about creativity now that you didn't believe?Maybe like, you know, what did that like young Kevin might have believed.

Yeah.So one of the things for sure is this is just the result of the online business space years ago when I was doing this is you have to hustle.Right.The hustle and the grind and all of that.That's something that's been enforced by corporate culture.It's been enforced by online business owners.It's like enforced by almost everybody who was trying to sell something at some point in time for that very early period when E commerce was just coming into space and online businesses were becoming a thing.And just because you hustle does not mean you're going to get the result that you want.Right,.

Right.Because.

We can hustle in the wrong direction.We could be focusing on the wrong things, we could be connecting with the wrong people.And hustling is just a way to burn out.Obviously it can work.It has worked for people.But if you're.You're choosing to do something, know that you don't need to necessarily work like a million hours a week in order to make it happen.Right.Like, what is the biggest, best things that you can do?What are things that currently work that you can expand upon?Because that's something we often do is like, what's next shiny thing.But we don't like to do the things that work for us.Right.A lot.

Of.

Us will always choose the thing that seems like, oh, but if this thing works the way that that person says it will, it's going to increase by X or whatever it may be.So I think hustling is definitely one of those things where it was part of the book and I had to figure out ways was my new interpretation of that.There are times to hustle.Right?Of course you can.

Sure.And.

It can work, but it's not something that is necessary for whatever your version of success is.

Yeah.And let me tell you, that grind culture, when you try, when you grind stuff out, you will burn out.And coming back from burnout, that is tough.That is tough.You know, I've been in Those situations, plenty of times I feel like I'm in it now.I feel like I, like, burned myself out doing my.That series and then also doing that movie.And I'm like, okay, like, slowly but surely, like, what is the coasting of all of this about to look like?Because I'm not gonna go back to what I was doing before.Oh, my gosh.Well, tell us.Tell us where we can find the book and read more about your work.You have so many things going on.You have standout creatives, standout authors.The Unbound series.Like, tell us where we can get the book and then, let's see.Like, and then tell us the ecosystem of Kevin Chung.

Yeah, you can go to wearellcreative.com It's a fun little site.There's a bunch of little Easter eggs on there.If you find them, let me know.

Okay.Yeah.The website is pretty cool.Did you do it yourself or.

Thanks.Yes.

Okay.I.

Know this could be a controversial thing, but I used Lovable, which is an app that allows you to build websites.And because I know how to build websites myself, I know what goes into what changes I need to make.

Oh, okay.

There's obviously certain things that people agree with and don't agree with, but I used.

Is that called, like, Vibe.Vibe coding.Look at me sounding like an auntie with my glasses.Like, is that Vibe coding, nephew?

Yeah, that's Vibe coding, but.

I think Cool.

To get the results that I wanted in the time that I wanted it.That was definitely something I worked with to try to make it happen.We are creative dot com.Anyway, back to the point is the website where you can browse it, let me know what you think about it, and then also you can find me on substack@newsletter thestandoutcreatives.com and that's where I talk about.Almost everything that I'm doing is found there.

Yeah.And you have lives there also.Like, I feel like, if not several times a week, every week, it seems that you're always going live with someone there.Tell us about your practice behind that.Like, who are these people you're going live with?

Yeah, so, I mean, they.I find them in different ways.Well, there's a Notes app, which is kind of like a Twitterish feed where people can throw out their ideas into the world and see who responds.But there's also connections that I made.Substack has their version of chat rooms with people.Anybody who joins your thing, you can chat with them and talk with them.I found them through there, so I Can I found them through like people who have commented on my posts.So there's all sorts of different ways to find people who do you know is also a great one.I love that as a podcast.

Yeah, that's really good.

Method is.

Like.

Because you're essentially pre qualifying people when they say oh you should talk to whoever.

Yeah, yeah, you're okay.So the book, the tell us about the party and when that all lines up again.

Yes.So the party is going to be on October 29th and I believe that is at 3pm Eastern if I'm not mistaken.It's hard for me because it's, it's.I'm in currently in central time but I will be changing back to, I mean mountain time and I'm changing back into central time at the time change.So it's all a little bit confusing because Costa Rica does not change times.But October 29th, 3pm and we will be celebrating the book launch.We will be giving out copies of the book or annual memberships and which includes creativity parties, which is a thing that's also happening.Um, so check out the site.It will give you all the details that you need to know.

And who can come to the party.Do we have to pre order the book first and then we can come to the party or can anybody come?

Anybody can come because I'm giving.

Away.

Some free copies.

Okay, fine.Fun, fun, fun, fun.Okay.And so then you have.So anybody can come to the party on October 29th at 3pm Eastern.You come there and if you don't get an opportunity to win a book, you can buy the book by itself or you can buy it in a different tier where it allows you to come to your creativity parties.That's two tiers.I feel like there were three tiers.

The third tier is if you want to have like a one on one session with me.

To.

Talk about whatever it is that you're working on, I want to help you make it happen.Right.So that's.

Kind of.

The thing that I'm trying to work on within my own creative practice.Like how can I amplify my own knowledge in marketing and all the different experiments and things that I've done to try to show people a path.It doesn't mean I know the right path.Right.No one knows the right path because.

The.

Future's unpredictable.

But.

Whatever I can do to help you on your journey, I want to do that.

That's really good.So you can give us like with the one on one you can give us marketing ideas which Is also really hard.I'm always, like, really impressed with folks who have all these different ways to share their products and their offerings and their events.So we can.With that third tier, we can meet with you and share.Hey, this is what I got going on.And you'll say, great.Have you tried A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, R, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S?A whole bunch of things, right?

Yeah.I can offer as many suggestions, but they.Ultimately, it comes down to who you are, what you like to do, what works for you.Especially, like, all those things in combination, like how.How can we figure out together a path forward like I did with my own journey of moving and, you know, trying to reestablish my life.

Yeah.Oh, my goodness.Well, you said re.Establish your life.Do you feel like you're.You're back established or are you getting there?I think it's always.

An evolution, right?Yeah.I think everyone is always constantly evolving and certain situations are unanticipated.So you cannot predict the future or what will happen or what people will do because life is unpredictable.So the best you can do is always try to adapt the best way that you can and prepare for the future if you can.

Yeah.Well, Kevin, I feel.Do you have any additional things to say before we call our conversation complete?

I would love to give you the opportunity to let people know about you and what you're doing, because this was amazing.I love talking to you.

Yeah, this was a lot of fun.Thanks for letting me have a chance to ask you all about we are Creatives because I think it's a really cool project.I love a prompt.Right.I think a prompt really sets folks up for success.It really does.And any sort of tool that can give us the opportunity to do that, whether it's, you know, I've been playing with those, like, exercise cards where you can, like, deal yourself out a workout.You know, like, there's those cards, there's the devotionals for, like, me and my own spiritual practice to figure out, like, what scripture to read, you know, your book, to give us a quote to a quote and a prompt of what to go on to, like, exercise or creativity muscle.I think that these types of things, tools are, like, so important.So I'm so glad that you took that book off your hard drive, dusted it off, brush it up, you know, took off the bad folks and, you know, gave it some new life and bringing it to us that we can all celebrate on the 29th and thereafter.But as for me, I have.You know, my podcast is called nosey AF Conversations about Art, Activism and Social Change.But I'm thinking about changing that tagline.But for now, that's where it is.Yeah, and.And yeah, so I have that podcast.I just recently completed, 31 Days of Black Business, where I interviewed 31 black business owners every day in the month of August, which is Black Business Month.So if you go there now, you will see those conversations as well as just some additional conversations as I'm going back into my regular rotation of speaking to artists and filmmakers, activists, neighbors of the world, and just seeing what everybody is up to.And I think that's it.You know, I'm an artist and I have an art practice and my art is mostly like film and photo based.I have an exhibition coming up in Milwaukee in February that.

I'm excited.

Working on.Yeah, I'm excited.So, yeah, so I do see my podcast as a part of my practice, obviously.But yeah, I'm gonna smooth that down where it was usually like a regular cadence of, you know, every week, every two weeks, an episode.I'm gonna scale that back as I start to prepare for this exhibition and just sort of see what that looks like of a balance.So, yeah, that's me.Thanks.

Awesome.Yeah, well, I think.

Oh, and if you want to wait, you can go to nosiaf.com to check out the website and then my art, you can go to miss graham.comm I S S G R A H A M dot com.So, yeah, thank you.

But yeah, just definitely check out her podcast for sure.It's amazing.She has a bunch of incredible guests.She's a great interviewer, as you've seen today.So check that out if you get the opportunity and subscribe, like, leave a comment on both of our podcasts because it's.

A pleasure.Yeah, please, that'd be great.Yeah.

And thank you everyone for coming,.

Especially those of you who are.

Live.

Yeah, that really.This was cool.This is my, personally, my first time doing LinkedIn Live.Kevin does lives all the time like a news anchor, so he's used to this, but it's new to me.So,.

Yeah,.

I just.

Wanted to shout out Jennifer Simpson, Tamisha.

Campbell and.

Becky Mullen Kemp for coming out to J.

Thank you all for coming out.That was great.Thank you so much.

All right, thanks everyone.

All right, see you later.Bye.