Leadership Without Burnout with Janelle Alba Garner of Tanglaw Advisory

Hey, friends. Welcome, and welcome back to nosey AF conversation about art, activism, and social change. I'm your host and friend Stephanie Graham.And y', all, we are Almost through the 31 days of black business series, and I am getting so sad. It. Yeah, I just am. I'm gonna be a professional, though, and I'm gonna keep it together.But this has really been such a honor to speak to everybody who I've spoken to these past few. You know, today's guest is absolutely no exception to that. I'm very excited to introduce you to today's guest, Janelle Alba Garner.So how do you keep a mission alive without burning out the people carrying it? That is the work that Janelle does.She's the founder of Tangla Advisory, and she came to it after watching founders do great things while sacrificing themselves in the process. Janelle doesn't think you have to, and she has a whole community arm serving south and west site organizations, mostly pro bono.Guys, I'm so excited to talk to Janelle. She's truly doing the Lord's work. And here's my theme song. I hope you've been enjoying that too. Thank you so much for listening to nosey af.And when we come back after the theme song, we will meet Janelle.

Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself.

Don't wreck yourself if you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up.

Hey, Stephanie.

Graham is nosey as Janelle. Welcome to nosey af.

Thank you for having me. This is so fun.

I'm so excited to have you, especially to speak about sustainability and success and sustainability and all those wonderful things. So my first question is, what made you decide that this was the work you wanted to build a business around?

Sure. Unsustainability in my life, perhaps. So this is, like, my. This is my third business.

Okay.

And just the first two ran its course, if that makes sense. I learned what I need to learn from them. And, like, this is the one that, like, I was like, wait, this kind of sounds. Sounds good. This feels right.That's what it is. This feels right.Before I transitioned to this one, I have, like, a really challenging client that made me not want to come to work on Mondays until I realized that, like, I'm the boss. Hold on, Wait. I don't have to be scared of her. I can fire her.And after that, she came on, like, I, you know, like, have the power here in that sense, and I didn't want people to sort of feel trapped in the way that I felt trapped.So Sort of thinking about, like, the intersection of what I'm think that I'm good at and, like, what my experience shows and, like, what I really care about. And growing up, people had always asked, you know, like, what do you want to do when you're older? And I was like, I don't know.Be a forensic anthropologist.

Right. As one does. Yeah.

Right. But it was really like, my actual answer was like, I don't know. I just want to help people.And that's, like, not very specific, because you can help people doing anything in any job that I had, that that was my goal. I just, like, really want to help people.And I figured with my background in, like, operations, like executive assistants, like, high level, like, administrative management type things, the people that I worked with, the founders that were doing really great things, they were dealing with doing that, but sacrificing themselves in the process. And I don't think you have to do that. So that's sort of the philosophy in which all of this is sort of built on.

Yeah, for real? Yeah.There is that point when we are in business for ourself, we have a client and there's like that shift in our mind that's like, they're the boss and it's like, actually, no, they are my client, you know.

Right.

Oh, my gosh. So, you know, before you got into, like, advising consulting, had you ever seen anyone doing that work before?I feel like all the advisors and consultants out there just feel so vague. And I'm like, how did you even think to do this?

Mm, yeah. Yes and no. Yes.In the fact that, like, a lot of my clients before, when I was doing like, fractional executive assistant type work, business and operations management, a lot of them were like, coaches and somewhat consultants.I feel like the lines overlap there a little bit sometimes, but when I think consultants, I think, like, suit and tie and like, presentations and things like that in, like, big, big consulting firms. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. I don't even know what they do. Yeah, I just know I want to help people. And I guess this is what the title is.But one of my clients before she did consulting, and that sort of opened my eyes to, like, no, you can, like, really help people. She focused on, like, helping people in, like, government agencies.And seeing her direct impact on, like, the work that they were doing and how they showed up to do the work, like, that was like, eye opening for me, if that makes sense. Yeah.

I love your idea that organizations don't fail because they lack passion. They often fail because people are compensating for gaps in the systems. What does that actually look like in real life?

Sure. Yeah. I think for most people when you start a business, sometimes it's out of like necessity. Right. Sometimes it's out of.I really love this work, which is where the passion come from. I love this work. I love what I'm able to do. Think of a like graphic designer, maybe. That's the first thing that came into my head.They loved like sitting down and like creating things in that artistic side behind it. They don't want to work on the admin. They don't want to do that. That's not the part. They just want to be able to create and freely do that.And a lot of artists I feel like are that way too creative people and just like business owners in general.And because of that, the sort of like admin type of the back end, which, you know, with, you know, the things that you run with admin hour, that kind of thing, those sort of like fall to the back because that's not what you really want to do. You just want to show up and create and, and, and do good work in the world.And with that piece, sort of like getting lost when you hire, when you scale, or when your responsibilities become greater, it's like kind of like a cog in the wheel. It makes things a little bit more difficult to show up in the way that you want to.And I think that that's something that people can sometimes struggle with. You know, like, okay, let's start from the foundation and like rebuild from there. Like, what does my ideal day look like?Or like, how do I want to show up in the work and where do I need to maybe hire somebody or, you know, find some supports or build my support team around growing this in a way that makes the most sense for me and the life that I want to live.

Yeah. You know, here's a question. Is there a difference between a business owner and a founder?

Dictionary definition. I don't know. I would consider them the same thing.

Okay. I've noticed people say like, I'm a founder, I'm a business owner.Or you know, maybe CEO is different because I'm like, I guess you can found a business and not be the CEO. Right. But I've just noticed those things are interchangeable. I like it. I like founder.

I like founder too. But you know, business owner applies. I would, I sort of myself err on the side of like, I don't want to call myself like a CEO or something.Like that. Only because, like, I don't have. I don't have the C suite. It's just me.

Yeah.

I mean, I could be the COO at the same time. Sure.

Okay.

I'm all of the people at once.

Yeah. And I also think, like, I don't have like a three piece suit either, so I'm not a CEO, which I know, like, people are probably listening.Like, you don't need one for that. But still, it's what first comes in mind, Right? Oh my gosh.

So.

You use the phrase regenerative leadership. What does that mean? And how is it different from the way we're traditionally thought to think about leadership and productivity?Like, do you need a three piece suit for regenerative leadership?

As in Civil War, obviously. Actually, I personally, like, I show up like this, I'm young, hoodies to meetings and things like that. Like, you're gonna see me as I am. Okay.That doesn't mean anything about my brain and what I can offer in service to you. But regenerative leadership, I think it's something that you embody or I guess you can learn it. I didn't make it up.Of course, it's in the ether somewhere. But the way that I sort of see it myself is in the work that I do is like thinking of the different organizations that I work with.My business in and of itself is sort of like a living ecosystem and there's like a give and take there to where I'm building the org through the founder and then building the founder through the Org. And I don't think that those two things can sort of be separated.I think that if you are, let's just say like a really busy founder, but you really care about your organization and the type of work that you do to serve others, you also need to be willing to look at yourself and how the mission and how you show up for the mission sort of maybe sends a message to other people on your team?Or like, what are you telling yourself where you maybe will show up saying that you really care about the wellness of others and that's what your organization is based off of. Right. Like, how does that show up in your real life? Are you working outside of working hours?Are you working when you know your, your kids want you to play outside? Like, there's so much more of like the joy piece to life.And like, I feel like prioritizing that and like helping people realize that they prioritize and like build around that piece helps them show up for work and the people that they they care about on that end a lot better as well.

Yeah. So can you walk us through the process of how someone works with you?I know you know, on your website, you have all these wonderful ways of, like, how you work. But when we say, okay, let's work with Janelle, what are our steps?

Sure. I guess there's sort of two ways that you can sort of get into the work.And I don't know if I explained this too much, but there are two pieces of my business, too, so I'll just try to keep it as succinct as possible.But if you're entering into the tong Lao advisory side, that is where you can start with either, you know, a clarity call where there's, like, one thing that you bring and we sort of work together for you to see on, like, a very. In a very small way, like, how my brain works and how I can sort of help you out. Right. Okay.And then the second way to sort of, like, enter into the work we do is I offer an organizational diagnostic tool where I come in and say, you're the founder. You maybe have a small team of, I don't know, three people.I interview you, I interview them, and I get a good sense of, like, where you are right now. And from there, we sort of also see where you want to be. And my work is kind of, like, in the middle of, like, okay, here's how we get there.So I think that's really fun and having sort of like, a third party there to talk to your employees. Employees or contractors or whatever it is. I'm sort of pulling things out to where, like I told you, I sit in. I've sat in two different seats before.So the way that maybe I viewed my clients business is definitely different than how they view it as, you know, the founder of that organization.So I'm able to sort of see those gaps in real time, and I give them a report to where it's like, everything's anonymized, so nobody's getting in trouble here or anything like that. For. I want them to feel comfortable voicing their opinions and so that we can get a good, honest view of, like, listen, this is.This is what's happening right now. Let's be real. So that's where we start. And then from there, we can go on with, like, okay, do you need a little bit of handholding?Are we going to work on this together? On, like, implementing things?And, like, I'm advising you through what we need to do to make sure that this type of thing Happens in a sustainable way to where you're able to do the work that you want to do without, you know, overwhelming your team or yourself. It's like we're starting from the beginning. How's the foundations?And I have sort of six pillars that I walk everybody through and that sort of gives us a good, well rounded sense of like where everything is at. That makes sense.

Yeah, yeah. It reminds me of the TV show Tabitha Takes Over. Have you ever seen it?

I actually saw it for the first time like two weeks ago. I was like, this is lucky me.

Yes, yes. When she like meets with the staff and she's like, what is the problem? And they're like, our owner does not come to work.Like, she doesn't come to work. She never orders our supplies. And it's like, ah, yeah. Because the owner wasn't saying that, you know, the owner's just like, my staff is frustrating.You know, they're not getting down to the bottom of it.You also created Tang Lao Collective, where you're intentionally making your expertise accessible to community based organizations on the south and west sides of Chicago. Why was it important to you to build that piece into your business?

I'mma be honest, those are the people that I actually want to work with. Not saying anything's bad about, you know, my clients, they're great.If I could work with, you know, community based organization, if I could do this, like that work is pro bono. The majority of it is pro bono. Like, if I could do that and still survive in this capitalist society, I'd be happy. Right? Yeah.I really love supporting my neighbors and my community.And I think that if those who run community based organizations, again on the south and west sides, depending where they are typically underserved or underinvested in communities, these are the people that need it the most.These are the organizations or communities that might not be able to afford or invest in at this sort of stage that their organization is in, in advisory or consulting work. But that doesn't mean that they don't need it.

Yeah.

And I think about all the times before to when I was like starting my business for the first time and I was thinking about, like, I literally don't know where to go next. Like, there's no like mentor that I have or like all these different things I had to learn on my own.And if I just had, you know, somebody who knew a little bit more maybe about like operations or anything that I didn't know. Financials. Oh, that's a big one. Right. Like all those different things I would have been able to help more people. And that's, that's my big thing.And like going back to what you said earlier on, like, why I sort of started this, I was trying to think of like, I can't be everywhere at once. Apparently. I'm really big on the sustainability thing and wellness. Right. That's one of my values. How do I help as many people as possible?And it sort of comes from the fact that I maybe call myself somebody who like amplifies impact. Like the work that I'm doing is sure directly helping someone, but it's helping someone help somebody else. And that's how I help people.So that's why it's really important to me.I want to be able to help, you know, my neighbors here on the south side, but also those on the west side and help not only the founders who are like really passionate about this work, but the people that, you know, maybe depend on them to get groceries or, you know, survive in areas where it may be not as easy.

Absolutely.And so when you work with folks, are you, you're taking us through the diagnostic and then you're turning over your findings and then is that it or do you have like check in points? Like how does the ongoing relationship look like?

Yeah, I have sort of two options. I mean, in a way the door's always open, right? Yeah, like, so there's that. I keep the door open.I love having like long term relationships with clients, even those that maybe don't want to continue investing in services or whatever it is. I see them as people and that's a really big part of like me and who I am in the work that I do.So the two, like sort of different ways is I sort of have like a six week sprint. 6,7Ish. It's flex, but it's going through each one of those pillars and like, it's like, okay, here's where we are, this is where we want to go.Let's make some progress now. And then you know where to go from here. You can take it and run with it.I also have sort of an ongoing advisory where we start with like three months and then sort of like see where we're at. And we're checking in, you know, twice a month. It's like, okay, your team is doing X, Y and Z. We're working on this right now. Where are we at?Where can I be helpful? And that's sort of like how that goes, if that makes sense.

Yeah. I love a check in point. I love a check in Point. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's why I was like, oh, my God, don't leave me after our diagnostic, please.

Yeah, I'm just dropping this really heavy document on you, like, right?

Here's your PDF and your checklist.

See you.

Oh, my goodness. What have you noticed over.Over the course of, you know, working with your different clients, is there something that, like, comes up where you're like, this is a collective thing that all y' all need to get together?

Get.

Yeah, get it together. You know, like a sort of like a collective thing where we can be better with sustainability in our business and our wellness.Have you seen anything that. That's like a thread.

What, like, what does success mean to you? Because that guides, like, everything. And if. If you are a person or an organization that is like, go, go, go.We need to make as much money as, like, all of the things all at one time. I don't know, we might not be the best fit for one another because that's not my philosophy. Right.I'm gonna tell you to slow down and I'm gonna be honest and I'm gonna be kind about it. Right. It's going to be like, no, you need to take a break. How about you take two days off and, like, just like, reset?I'm always going to, you know, advocate for the reset. I just think it's super important to pour back into yourself, to be able to even have the ability to pour into others.And I'm not going to, like, compromise on that, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

So it's like, what does success mean to you? And then how can we get there using things that we already have, or the support system or, you know, community that we have?What is within my reach to make that possible?And then where are the gaps that we can fill and how can we do this all in a way that is, again with this word, sustainable and keeps our well being at the forefront.

It's so hard to learn to slow down because I feel like, I mean, I know this is just pure capitalism. We just see, like, what other folks have. And, like, man, they got this, they got that, and I want this. Or, like, you know, even.Even in, like, our projects, like, you know, in the fellowship, change, collective, and even just hearing everybody's plan of action in their communities. And obviously, I know, like, we all want it right then and there, but it takes time to plan stuff out.Like, I've learned that it takes time to plan things out way longer. And it's just frustrating because why don't we have what we want right now?

You tell me.

Yeah, it's so frustrating. As a black woman building a business around social impact, how have you had to think differently about growth?

That's a good question. Okay, let me think really quick. Okay. I would say.I would say something along the lines of kind of what I said a little bit earlier, like, yeah, what does growth look like for me? Am I trying to make a million dollars in a month? That may not be the case. It'd be nice, but that may not be the case. Right?

Yeah.

So thinking about, like, what growth means to me right now, it would be, like, how many people can I serve? That's, like, my measure of it. And, like, how can I do that in a way where it doesn't cost me so much? You know, I feel like this.Black women, Black people, however you want to put it.I think that I've been thinking about, you know, how people have said he has to work a bajillion times harder to get noticed, and we have to put in so much work. And there's nuance to that, because in some ways, yes, it's true. And I think that running a business is not easy. It's not easy.I don't wanna hold you. But it doesn't have to be so hard either.And I think that that's because all the things that we've been told that have been ingrained in us, that maybe are seated in our minds as truth, but they might not be.And there's so many things that we've learned that we have to unlearn, but we have to be able to take that reset and that space and think about what it means for us to grow in a way that supports the type of success that we want to have. And it has taken me a while to figure out what that means to me. And it's really just like my version of success means. I'm helping a lot of people.I'm doing something that I love, and I'm able to, you know, spend time with my family and not have to feel, like, pressured by work all the time. And by those metrics, I mean, I'm doing a pretty good job.And I think that I can grow in the sense of, like, I can reach more people and I can do things to help others, whatever. I can continue to make money, which would then support my family. Right. Like, all of those different things.But for me, growth doesn't mean, in this sense, necessarily making a million dollars a month, because that would require me to be honest about that one and two, a completely different structure of how I've set up my business and. And the ways that I'm, you know, showing up for people and, like, what I have to be honest about what I have time for.So I hope that answers your question. I don't know.

Yeah, no, I think it answers it. I just, like, I feel like I think about, you know, just because I can do more doesn't mean I should do more. Do you relate to that statement ever?Like, wanting to do more and just pulling yourself back.

And I feel like that ties into, like, the unlearning piece.Like, it's so difficult as somebody, you know, who identifies with having, you know, autism and adhd, it's like the two wolves inside me that are fighting for maybe, like, more order. And then also, like, the. The.The fun and, like, all the different things that I want to do at one time, it's like, no, I gotta focus today, and tomorrow I'm gonna have a little more fun.It's like, really, really being, again, honest, but then also, like, accommodating and understanding of myself and, like, what I need and then also what I may or may not be able to do anymore. And it doesn't mean anything about, like, me as a person.Like, sure, I can do more, but maybe I should because I care about, like, what that might do to me two days from now when I'm down for the count and need to sleep for, like, six days. It's not worth that to me anymore.And before I just didn't know, but now I do, and it's the whole fact of, like, okay, it's making it an intentional choice. Like, sometimes it might have to happen, but most of the time it doesn't.Because I know and trust in myself and my ability to get things done without having to sacrifice myself in the process.

Yeah, for sure. I know. Because if anything, your body's gonna tell you, absolutely not. Go lay down. No, I fall. I've fallen asleep plenty of times on the couch.Like, think, oh, yeah, girl, I'll be there. I can. I can be on the. I could sit in the meeting, and then I, like, wake up. I'm like, it's 8 o'.

Clock.

Oh, my gosh.You know, Janelle, if someone listening is running a small business, nonprofit, or community organization, and they know something about the way they're working isn't sustainable, but they don't have a big budget or huge team, what's one thing you tell them to look at first?

Hmm. I would say look at yourself and, like, how things are in your personal life, I mean, it. That sort of informs, like, how you show up at work.And I kind of stand behind that. Cause I know it very well.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I'm not saying this in the sense of like, oh, my gosh, everybody has freedom and money and time to be doing all these things and, like, prioritize. Like, I can. I can sense, like, all of that coming back at me because I know that I was once that person, you know?And I say take it one step at a time.Like, if that's something that you want again, being honest about, like, what success looks like for you, what growth looks like for you, what you want out of your life, because it is your life to live. You can choose to do whatever you want. And that's beauty of it. Right?It's like looking at yourself in the sense of like, okay, my day today, I have my. Personally, I have a, like, two pieces of my calendar. It's like, what I have to do.Like, I have this on my calendar, but there's like an ideal day blocked out on my calendar. It's blocked as free, but it's helping me see that, like, to get to where I want to go. This is what my day looks like.I work two, three hours in the morning. I work two, three hours in the afternoon or so, like, I have it blocked off and then boom, like, I'm.I'm going to go do this thing, like, walk my dogs and. And take them to the park, or I'm gonna go with my partner and we're gonna go see a movie.Like, I have it scheduled out in a way to where it's like, I can make the conscious decision to continue working at night. It happens. But if I'm saying yes to that, I'm in a way saying no to these things that I told myself I would prioritize, you know?

Yeah. Oh, my God, I love that.Just that calendar you just said about the two, three hours in the morning and the two there after two to three hours in the afternoon. So are you taking, like, a break for after your three hours? Do you take a break and then come back and then do another three?

It's lunchtime. For anybody listening, you need to take lunch. I don't care. Close your laptop, take lunch. Go on a walk. That's it.If you don't listen to anything else, that's the one thing you need to eat.

How long is your lunch? How long is your lunch?

I have it set for an hour. I typically eat. I typically have it prepped for, like. Like, what I want to eat, but I'll eat for, like, 30 minutes, and then I'll go walk my dogs.It's good for you to walk after eating also.

Yeah, no, it's true. I love a routine. I love hearing other people's routine. That's why I was like, ooh, how long is a lunch?

What's. Yeah, no, my days never actually follow it to a T. Yeah, no, because it'll change a hundred percent.I'm reactive in the sense, but I'm conscious about, like, what it is that I'm trying to hold myself to. But one thing about me. 12 O'.

Clock.

See ya. I'm. I'm taking lunch. See ya at one o'. Clock. Whatever you had, had to do. You know what? I'm in a meeting with myself.

I love it. I love it so much. Do you take lunch with clients?

Like, when I'm in person with them?

Yeah, when you go to lunch with them.

Okay, cool.

So you're not that much of a sia when you're. When we're with you in person.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Go have long.

Go have kavlam.

Oh, my gosh. Janelle, before we call our conversation complete, is there anything else you want to touch on?

Oh, touch on. I would maybe say with Tong Lao Collective, there's a lot going on over there, and if you.Or if you know, somebody that might be interested in, you know, we have a little different workshops happening. We have partnerships to where we do, you know, community volunteer once a month on Saturday with different organizations. Yeah.And I just try to support, you know, organizations that are on the west side, the south side, that might need to use a couple extra hands every month. You know, it's a. It's typically one different organization every month.So then it's sort of, you know, building community, making people understand, like, what's out there. Like there. There are so many different people and organizations and. And that kind of thing.And I like, you know, I like meeting people and helping people out. So that's what. That's.That's one of the things I would say that there are a bunch of different resources that I have out, and then I also have quarterly partnerships available and monthly office hours. So there's a lot of things going on over there, and I'd love to.

What happens with. What happens at the office hours.

So office hours, I'm. Once a month seems like a theme here, but we sort of.It's a small group, and we sort of take the Time to like talk about a specific topic for the month. So let's just say regenerative leadership, Right.We're talking together on like what that might look like for all of us in our respective organizations. And it's sort of an open conversation. I don't record it. It's just whoever's there, we sort of like talk and show up for each other.And it's a nice way for us to sort of meet one another in the city and make connections about people that are doing good work.

Oh, that's wonderful. Are they in person or are they on Zoom?

They're on Google Meet.

Oh, Google Meet. Okay. Yeah, same thing. Yeah, to me. Yeah. Awesome.

I love these. But I'd be totally open to doing it in person sometime if people would want to do that. I actually never thought of that.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I know this Covid world. It like makes us have stuff on virtual, which also is like, sort of nice. Even thinking about sustainability.Like, you know, if you're like a caretaker or a parent or like something is just far gas is super high these days. Like, let's get on the Google Meet and talk about our topic for the month. I love that so much.

Yeah, thank you.

I love that so much. Yeah. And also another quick question I had with your. You had like the one day kind of a thing that sort of opened for all kind of businesses.I guess that's my question is like, we have the community organizations that you love to work with. Who else is someone that would be a good fit to be to work with you?

Sure. Yeah. I don't know. I would say that I typically love supporting mission driven organizations or businesses.Typically they have smaller teams, so I love working one on one with founders, executive directors and like I was talking about like working on the organization through them because I feel like in that way things work, you know, top down and like how you show up as a leader informs, you know, how people might feel maybe comfortable showing up for work and. Or, you know, you might be a solopreneur, which is fine.

Okay, cool.

I'm a solopreneur too. Yeah.

Yeah.

And in that sense it's sort of like, okay, what does growth look like to you? Do you want to be a solopreneur forever?And even if that is the case, you should have these foundations set and in place to make the work easier for you. There's a lot of things that can be like systematized. Not necessarily like, yeah, sure, you can automate them if AI is your thing.For some people, it Is not. And that doesn't mean that you can't make the work easier for you or make it work for you. And it's just like being creative in that work.And the type of work that I do and the way that I show up is I think that you have agency and that's one of my values.

Um, yeah.

I'm not gonna come in and tell you that everything you're doing is wrong. No, we're doing it together. It's. It's a co creation thing and there has to be that sort of trust there.And where it's like, okay, I'm showing up with, like, this is my experience, this is, these are my thoughts. But at the end of the day, this thing is your baby. Like you've created it from the ground up.And I trust that you are gonna do what's best for you and best for your business and best for the people that you're serving. And we sort of like work together to, to make this whole ecosystem happen.

I love that. For folks who are interested, how can we get in touch with you?

Do you want to shout out your.

Business resources or your links and everything?

Sure, yeah. Well, I have my website, so you can reach me@tomlaoadvisory.com it is a Filipino word in Tagalog and it stands for sort of like guiding light.So it's spelled T A N G L A W. And then advisory. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn. Perhaps I'm doing thought leadership or something of the sort on there.

Thought leadership, right.

AKA I'm yelling into the void about taking a lunch break and, you know, viewing yourself as, you know, the human that you are and having that piece into your business. But yeah, I'm pretty much only on LinkedIn. One day I might.I pull in the YouTube if you guys so happen to want to see videos of me talking about that stuff. But up and my website and you can, you know, email me. My name is Janelle and it's J A N E l l o eonglauadvisory.com My inbox is open.I'm happy to just chat. I really love, like meeting new people and seeing. I feel like you can learn from everybody, you know.

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Janelle, thank you so much.We're going to put all of those details in the show notes and yeah, thank you so much for doing this show with me and celebrating black business.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

That concludes another episode of nosey AF31 Days of Black Business. I'm your host and friend, Stephanie Graham. I hope you took something away from today's conversation and had a good time hanging with us.Be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about today's guests and consider supporting their work. You know how it goes, whether you're making a purchase, hiring them, or simply spreading the word. Listen, who who doesn't love a referral?It truly all makes the difference.Quick thank yous go out to Queen Lex and Freddie Bam Bam for the nosey AF theme music and Emma McGoldrick, who hooked me up with the COVID art and branding. Shout out to the partners and supporters for this series. You could check them out in the show notes as well. Super grateful for a partner. Hello.That's the show Friends until tomorrow. Stay curious and take care. Bye.