Empowering Women Through Firearm Safety with Javondlynn Dunagan of JMD Defense

Hey, friends, welcome and welcome back to noseyAF conversations about art, activism, and social change. I'm your host and friend Stephanie Graham.And guys over here at noseyAF, we've been getting our party on, celebrating Black Business Month, where we are speaking to a black business owner every day this month, which I personally love because ain't no party like a black business party. Am I right? Am I right, y'?

All?

Today's guest is Javondlynn Dunagan, a founder of JMD Defense and the Ladies of Steel Gun Club, which is a 700 plus women ages 20 to 80 learning firearm safety together. Javondalyn retired from a 25 year career as a US probation officer at 49 and has built this wonderful education platform community for fire safety.And she's going to tell it all yourself because you know what, she was scared of guns at first. So I was personally really interested in. This because I've never had anybody talk about gun safety even in like their art practice before.So listen, we're going to play the theme song and then we're going to get into our conversation with Javon Delin. So welcome to noseyAF.Gotta get up, get up tell the whole world you a winner, winner vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you're doing, how you doing, what you're doing and who you are Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself, don't wreck yourself if you know me then you know that I'll be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie Graham is nosy as Javonda Lynn. Welcome to noseyAF.

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Yeah, I'm really excited because we are real life neighbors and it's like such a dream talk to you because I always like on this show talk about like being a neighbor, being a good neighbor. And so I'm like, I have like an excellent neighbor on the show. So that's really, really cool. Yeah. So thanks for. Thanks again.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. So we're here to talk about your company, JMD Defense.And for those who are just meeting you for the first time, what led you from a 25 year career as a US probation officer to entrepreneurship?

So when I was thinking about retiring, one of the benefits of federal law enforcement is that we get to leave early and we have to leave at 57, but you can leave as early as 50, but if you put in 25 out 25 years, you can leave 25 years later. So I started at 24 and that meant at 49 I had one extra year that I could take advantage of.So, you know, thinking about my mom, she didn't retire early. She worked until, you know, her health declined.And I said, every generation should do something better and strive higher than the last, the previous generation. So retiring at 49 was scary, but it was necessary because of the stress. So I loved my career, but it was time to go because I had hit a wall.I just had hit a wall. So I left eight years on the table.But in the end, it was the best decision I could have made because towards the end of my career, I finally decided to take up the firearm training and then started noticing the difference between women and men in how they train and learn how to shoot. So that's how the business was sparked, because I realized that women need. Women are sponges. So we want to learn anything we don't know.We don't try to have that bravado. Like, I already know this. So I really wanted to start this business to really focus on women overcoming their fear of firearms.

Yeah, I think it's really good that you have this business because, yeah, guns, you know, are scary. Now there's that phrase like, oh, guns don't hurt people, people hurt people, or, you know, something like that. So, yeah.Was there something that, that you noticed about women also, outside of just women being sponges and they need to have this education? Was there like a certain incident that you noticed where you're like, you know what, let me hold a class or.

Yeah, something as simple as I was going to the range when I retired, and I never saw women at the range by themselves or in a group. And you go to the range and you see men and they built this instant camaraderie at the range. But I didn't see that with women.You would see women with a man, and then unfortunately, you would see him teaching her all of the wrong things. And some, you know, are good instructors that are friends. They're not officially instructors.But I know what I was learning and had learned from my employer, the feds, which, you know, top notch law enforcement. So what I saw, I said, it's really hard for your intimate partner to teach you something that they expect you to understand.And the reason I say that is men or your partners tend to think, well, you're dynamic in all these areas and why can't you get this? So then it turns into they're hollering at you and, you know, the expectation is so high.But this is something very different for us and it does make us fearful. So I realized, I said, Your intimate partner can't teach you how to shoot.And there are oftentimes I've met police, and they said, I'm sending my mother to you. I'm sending my daughter to you or Graham. Because they cannot be compassionate. As we go through the stages of learning how to shoot.

Yeah. Is it. Is it hard to learn how to shoot? Like when we sign up for your classes? Like, what are we signing up for? Is it. It mean.It just sounds intimidating.

Yeah. So what I tell people.Cause for me, quick little story years ago at the job, because when I started the job, I was the only person that wasn't interested in learning how to shoot. They gave us an option, and I took advantage of it. I said, I don't really want to learn how to shoot. I'm good.But the very first time I tried to take the class, the clicking of the revolver was really intimidating. And I could feel it. My mind was going 50 million places, and I left training early.So what happens is we think about the gun killing somebody, as you said in the beginning, but the gun has to have a human interaction in order for something to happen. So because my business is highly focused on safety, we've never had an incident in 10 years with anyone doing anything negligent.Not accidental, because accidental is. Is given that the gun did something. Negligence is the owner did something.So to answer your question, it's intimidating and scary because what we think about in the forefront is that this gun could kill somebody or kill me.

Yeah.

But if you handle it properly.And I always tell people, if you pay attention on the first day, you'll get through the second day, and you'll be smiling and jumping up because you'll feel accomplished.So I had these same fears that everyone tells me about, and that's what I believe makes me effective in my business, because I understand where they came from. I didn't start with, oh, I'm a gun enthusiast. So you need to get this. I see the fear, and I walk people through the fear at their pace.I don't rush anybody. I just don't.

Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. I think automatically, it sounds like it's way better to be with you than our partner, because we're not gonna be yelled at.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Looking back, were there lessons from your probation officer career that directly influenced how you teach personal safety today?

Yes. So not carrying a gun, I needed to be very aware of my surroundings because I didn't have anything other than my brain.So I tell people, if you had to leave the gun at home, are you going to use your brain, or are you going to try to revert back to, oh, my God, I got to carry my gun everywhere? Like today I went out. Well, it was last night. I went out to an event, and my gun didn't allow me to be. It didn't allow me.My outfit didn't allow for me to carry my gun on me. So I had to think about anything that could go wrong. But I had to use my brain because my gun wasn't home.

Right.

Or it could have been in my car.So, you know, what happens is people have a gun, and then they have a false sense of hope or a false sense of bravado, when even with the gun, the goal is not to have to pull it out and use it. You want to be thinking about, do I need to use this gun as a last resort?So the main, I think, incident that helped me to decide what is necessary and what isn't is being in situations where you see your officers kind of flexing with a gun and you realizing, oh, let me make sure I help them to understand. The gun is not gonna keep you safe. It's how you interact with people that's gonna keep you safe.

Yeah, that's so true. And you say you often talk about situational awareness. How do you define it? And why do you think so many people misunderstand what it actually means?

Yeah. You know, situational awareness really is. In any environment, are you watching your surroundings?So the perfect example is you go into a space, and generally, if something goes down, people are gonna exit the same way they came in, because that's what they're familiar with. But when I go into a space, I'm looking for exits. And if an exit. Think about a movie theater. If the exit is behind you. Cause that's where we enter.There's an exit usually in front of you on both sides, but people run back the way they came in. So when I'm in church, I'm watching the security guards because they're watching us.And if they start moving and start looking in their camera in their earpiece, then I know something is going down. Right.

Yeah.

So I'm listening to the pastor, but I'm watching security. And that's situational awareness. You want to be thinking ahead of what could happen and kind of predicting.And one of my models is I'm prepared and paranoid, so I'm a little bit of both so that nothing will happen to me.

Yeah. Could you give advice for how somebody can develop situational awareness?

Yeah. So One of the things I tell people is not to have earplugs in your ear, not both. Because now these earplugs can drown out everything. Right?

Yeah.

I tell people when you're going into a parking structure and you're going to an event where you cannot have your gun even if you had it, Some of these garage structures are so isolated. A girl just was assaulted in Arlington Heights in a parking structure. Oh, wow.So what I say is drive when you're looking for a space, drive intentionally to the location where you see the elevator and then go park. So, you know, if something happens, you know where the elevator is because you've already identified where it is.If I get in, you know, most people drive, they find a space and they get out and then they're wandering around looking for the space. Right. That's me, you know, and we do that.And then also when you're in a parking garage, the beams are so thick that somebody could be standing behind a beam and you don't even know it because you're just jumping out your car, getting to your space, or you're on your way back to your space. So I can give one quick example too. At home, most people have motion detectors on their home.

Yeah.

And the thing about a motion detector, it activates when there's motion. So if I stand still in front of your garage on the side. We know how our garages are made.If I stand still on the side of your garage, it's not gonna move. So you don't think it's any motion. Anybody's there. But when you come in to your garage, it activates because you think you activated it.But the person could still be standing on the side of your garage.

Oh, my gosh.

So what happens? People don't think about that. So I recommend people get dusk to dawn light, so they're always on. And you're not looking for motion to activate it.You should be looking when you drive into your garage. Is anybody on the side of my house?

Yeah.

So that's it. I mean, that's the simplest thing, is being aware of everything.When you go to restaurants, when you go to church, when we go out of town, we let our guards down because we're footloose and fancy free. And criminals travel everywhere. They are. They're everywhere.

Yeah. They're all out here.

Yeah.

Yeah. Are there common mistakes people make unintentionally that put them at greater risk? Yeah.

You know, I've seen people get out the car to get gas and they leave it running yeah. You know, that's.You would think that wouldn't be common, but I see it, you know, when it comes to potential carjacking situations, I've seen people at the front light on their phones, waiting for the light to change. And you're most vulnerable at the front of the light because they could jump in the car, you know, and move over, I mean, and take your car.I think people are most vulnerable when they're in their homes. Because people come home and maybe not turn on their alarms. On, motion off.So that while you're in home, like I'm in my house now, if I hear my alarm go off, that means there's an intruder in my house.

Yeah.

Cause my alarm is on, my doors are locked. I mean, unfortunately, it's black people in some neighborhoods, maybe the majority of the ones we live in.

Yeah.

We don't have a luxury of leaving windows open overnight and doors unlocked. You know, people come in their garages and leave the interior door unlocked. There are not enough police to get to us fast enough.And so we do a lot of things being laxed, not thinking that all a criminal needs is an opportunity.

Yeah.

And I tell people to think like a criminal. What would they do? And that's how I think. What would a criminal do? And what would I do to not do what they do?

What's the difference between being aware and being afraid?

So when I talked about being paranoid and prepared.

Prepared, yeah.

So what that means and being afraid or aware.I'm aware if I go to a restaurant, that somebody could come in and snatch my purse if I have it on the back of my chair or I have something in my lap. Being aware, not being. I don't want to say being. Being afraid that somebody could come in, you know, and just run in and do something.But being aware is. Where am I seated at the restaurant so I could see the entrance, right?

Yeah.

And when I'm in the restaurant, if something happened, am I aware that I could exit this door? Now, some people don't want to think about what could go wrong.And I'd like to think about worst case scenario, if something happens, what would I do? Everybody doesn't think like that all the time. And when I go out of town on vacation, I try to think like that too. Cause I don't have my gun.So I really try to always think about, man, is there an exit to get out of this place and what's going on? And then I watch behavior. I watch people.

Yeah, Yeah. I do stay aware, pay attention to people. You get to. People watch doing it that way.

You do. You do. And I do. One thing. One thing I do tell people is watch people's hands.

Okay.

So if people are standing in front of you, around you, and their hands are in their pocket, that's weird, right? Unless you just kind of notice that this is like their normal.

Yeah, let's just say wintertime or something.

Right. But I watch people's hands. I watch people's eye movements. I do.And I think it's a telltale sign sometimes if somebody is up to no good, if they have a gun or something. I'm watching. Because if you notice in police shows or whatever, they'll tell them to take your hands out your pocket.

Yeah, they do. They do. They do.

Yeah.

You have the Ladies of Steel Gun Club. Right. Which. Who doesn't like to be a part of a club? I mean, let's be honest. It grew from seven members to more than 700.What do you think resonated so strongly with the women to join a club?

So I think a few things happen. I. I transparently tell my story about being afraid of guns, and then look at me now. This is what I tell them.I also think that women have a need for community when they're learning something. Right.

Yeah.

So you rarely will see someone do something individually, especially if they're really fearful of it, because they need somebody else they might be fearful or somebody to cheer them on. So it kind of grew from 25 people, and it had just started ballooning.But I think what happened is I developed a process to empower them to accomplish something that they never thought they would. Something scary. And then they could be badasses and be like, oh, my God, I can't believe this. But the.But the main thing that I think has attracted women to us is that we don't look like men. Yeah, we are cute. And I have a T shirt that's called I'm cute and I can shoot. So that. Yeah.So that helps the women to see I don't have to look like a man to carry a gun.

Yeah.

And then I try to always show them other options and ways to carry a firearm. So I think it resonated with them hearing my story, finding out when we get together that they know some other people.And now we started doing some social things, which helps women as well. They didn't want to just go shooting. They kind of wanted to do some other things. So I think it's. And let me tell you, we have no drama.I put a lady out of the club because she was kind of out of control. When we went to Cooper's Hawk one time for a Christmas event, and I was real clear and said to everyone, this is not about me making money.This is my brand and my name.

Yeah.

And there's no room for horseplay with guns. Even though she didn't have a gun, I just said, when we're out together at any event like this, you're representing the club.You're not representing you. Because they're gonna say, those ladies are still one of them acted a fool.So I think that's what helps that ladies know we can have a lot of drama in things, but 700 and something women don't all come together. You know, we have about 250 that are active now, but we've never had any trauma other than that one time.

Yeah. And you guys have a documentary, right? Is there a documentary about y'? All? Yeah. That's really cool.

It is.

How did that come about?

So, you know, people tend to.Over the years, I got a lot of press, and people come and they want to tell their story about us, so they interview me, and then, you know, 90% of the time, it's been fine. But last year, I said, you know, we really have a story to tell. You know, there's no other gun club that is unique in doing what we're doing.Some of them are joint. And I didn't want a joint gun club. We do have a men's club now. I resisted doing it because men don't need a gun club. And so I went to.I reached out to a few people, got referrals, and then remembered that there was a Hamptonian that I had met that said she worked in the film industry and she was a filmmaker. So I called her, and she said, absolutely. You know, let's work together. If I could have full producer rights. I said, yeah, I just.I know what story I want told.

Yeah. You're like, I just want a movie.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like I. It's. It's something to see women of all ages, from 20 to 80, learn how to use a gun.

Yeah.

You know, so that. That is how the documentary came about. It took us a year, but it was. It was well worth it.

Can we see the documentary?

Yes. So technically, we have put the documentary entered into various film fests.

Okay.

So I'm going to. I'm praying we get picked for a Chicago screening so I can show it there. If we do not, then I'm gonna go with plan B.And Rent out a space for the second showing. We did just do a showing at Governor State. We did two.

Oh, no way.

Yeah. It was well received. Well received. And so I'm gonna plan for another one. I just have not.I'm waiting to see if we win these, you know, film fests and I pray one of them's in Chicago so that we can, can do that.

Yeah, that's really cool. What surprised you most about the women who've joined the club? Have you seen like confidence, friendships? Like what. What surprised you?

You know, we as women are, we, we tend to embrace people, period. We're nurturers, right?

Yeah.

So what has surprised me is when you see a lady in the beginning come in and be nervous. You could feel it, you could see it and then how they embrace her to say, look, hey, this is where I came from.You could get here and there's no competition. It's not like, look at me, look at me. Let me show you what I do.What also surprised me and most people that interview me think that our women have been victims and they're here to take that revenge. But, you know, no, next time I'm going to get them what.The women that are in the group are here as proactive members, so they're trying to protect themselves in the event something happens. I think that has surprised me most.But what I don't do is talk about domestic violence victims and trying to push them this way because that is a different beast that I don't want to deal with until I can really work with them. And you know, in a group setting to say, you can't just pull out your gun because he jumped out the bushes.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? You got to really think this through.So I did start a foundation, JMD Defense Safety Academy, to focus on trying to get grants so that I can focus on those populations that are afraid of firearms, like terrified, like domestic violence victims. Men and women. Men go through it too, but mainly women.So that is what has surprised me, that my clients held 90 something percent have never been victimized. But that other group that's out here, they need to learn some self defense.And they may be ready, but I focus on temperament, so they may not be ready.

Yeah. And I remember one time you telling me that, you know, sometimes it's not always about like, am I gonna, you know, shoot someone?Sometimes you need to know how to handle a gun. You know, just like learning that. I remember when my grandfather passed, he had a gun in his house. And like I Was so.We all were so afraid to touch it. I had to ask a friend to go in and like, you know, grab it for us and stuff. Cause I was just so afraid.And I'm like, that really just sort of helped me think, like, oh, yeah, that's just smart in itself. I just finished working on the TV show the Shy. And they, you know, always are like having, you know, they all, like, have guns as props.And even that I was like, afraid, you know, even if they're like, fake.

Right?

They're fake or. And it was just so intimidating.So I'm like, It made me think about our conversation of just like, having the education just to know, like, what the experience of even holding a gun is. Like the parts of a gun, just because it's so, you know, As I started the conversation with scary. It's just good to have that education.

It is.One of my friends was involved in a domestic situation and an ex boyfriend came through the window and was waiting on her when she got home from a date with the new boyfriend and terrorized them. And there was an opportunity for her to get ahold of the gun. She tried to kick the gun to the new boyfriend and he missed her cue.So the guy picked up the gun and shot the guy and shot her, killed him. Because, you know, she survived.And what she said was, you know, if I knew how to pick up the gun and wasn't afraid of the gun, paralyzed fear, she would have picked up the gun and shot him. So that's one of those reasons I do offer an intro to firearms class. Because some people just want the knowledge.So if they're ever in a situation, they know what to do. I used to look at a gun and be shaking like, oh my God, that gun is gonna hurt me. The gun was sitting there and nothing was happening.But I didn't understand it because I hadn't gone through safety training and ad nauseam to find out what to do, what not to do. So some of it is just overcoming your fear of even touching the gun. And then the next step, the final step is shooting the gun.And some people may stop at, I just want a gun in the house. I'll never carry it outside. And some people may not want to carry a gun at all. They just need to know the knowledge.

Yeah. So with JMD defense, is it like a suite of classes that you have? It's sort of like a full curriculum?

It is. So I have a Intro to Firearms class, then concealed carry. I also offer gun cleaning classes, how to purchase a Firearm. So, you know what happens.And, you know, we will go and buy a car, and they'll sell us what they want us to buy. You'll go and buy a gun, and they'll tell you what gun is best for women. And there's no gun best for women. So it's the same thing. Right.So I love that class because I'm helping empower women to go to the gun store and know exactly what they want. Right. And so I also offer a draw from concealment class. So every class kind of builds from the next. The previous one.So the draw from concealment is, if you have a gun and you're carrying it, do you know how to snatch it out of the holster and shoot on target the correct way? And so those are the classes I may be. Oh, I do have a service that I provide. So, like, what happened? You said you found your grandfather's gun.So what I do is provide a service that when people pass away and a relative is going through the house and they find a gun, some people are afraid to handle the gun.

Yeah.

So what I do is come and make sure the gun is unloaded and let them know this gun can either be sold or kept as a collector's item. Most of them are. And that if you're going to carry it, go take it to get clean.So that's just another service that I provide that, you know, that people need and they don't think about it.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's really nice. I definitely would have use that service. I had to call like an ex and say, will you come get this gun?You know, thinking back about your documentary that you did, what story were you hoping the filmmakers would capture about your organization?

What she captured, what I was hoping was for her to show the confidence that these black women possessed and how they became so confident over the years. Right.So it really did show these ladies confidently handling their guns at the range, talking about feeling empowered and, you know, never having held a gun to the point that now they've gone through a sharpshooter's program.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Or one lady saying, I have multiple guns and I'm good.You know, her husband is not into guns, but she's the badass that's gonna protect the family if she needs to.And what I love about that part of the story, too, is even if the women are married or they're single, they're taking responsibility for their own safety. And that's what I wanted the documentary to show that most of us, even if you're in a relationship.We're generally traveling to and from places by ourselves.

Yeah, even.

Even to meet your partner if you're going out to dinner or, you know, whatever. But we are usually by ourselves, coming in and out of our homes. So that was what I wanted to show this. This level of confidence.And I also wanted to show a variety of ages in the documentary as well.

And what do you hope audiences take away when they watch the film?

I hope they take away the importance of learning about firearm safety, even if they don't want to have a gun. And I want women to think about, you know, if you're going to own a gun, buy a gun, whatever, get with the right group and training environment.Because education, firearm education doesn't stop after you take a concealed carry class.

Yeah.

And it. That's the disservice we do to people because they stop there and then it shows up.Because when something goes down, they either shoot the wrong person, they don't know what they're doing, or they harm themselves or they get killed because they haven't practiced.And so one of the things that I'm proud about with our gun club is that we have a meeting once a month, and I share anything related to firearm education. Right. If I bring a speaker in or something, I'm talking to them about we have firearm education once a month.That is what I strongly believe has helped our ladies to make good, solid decisions with their guns. And that we, knock on wood, have not had any mishaps.

Yeah.That's really a blessing. And you're so right. You only hear that people have taken, like, a weekend class and then that's it. I didn't even think about that.It's supposed to be like an ongoing. An ongoing thing. Yeah.

And people are carrying guns and it's like, oh, yeah, I got a gun. And when it's time to use it, they pull it out and they don't know what they're doing. And that's the scary part.

Yeah. Because it's like, you could take this class and then it's like years later and you can't remember. You have to, like, be in practice about it.

You do.And every time something happens, if you go to the range, every time you're pulling the gun up at the same level and you're shooting, it's muscle memory. But if you haven't been doing that and an incident occurs, you're struggling to load the gun.You're struggling to figure out, okay, now do I do this this, or this that's? The problem. You need to know that your gun is going to work, that you've cleaned it, that it's going to operate.And you might be nervous, but you shouldn't be paralyzed with fear if you have to use it because you've shot it and you know what it's gonna do.

Yeah. What was it like being a subject of a documentary? Did you learn anything about yourself?

Well, what's interesting is I, I, I didn't want, I didn't want it to talk about me, but it did talk about me. It showed who I was, who I am in a story. I learned.And I didn't realize it, but I learned that I'm very much an encourager when we're at the range because you'll hear me say, good job. Yes. And so I'm sounding like a coach on a team on the sidelines. And what I learned too is how the ladies follow my instruction. And that.And then it wasn't that I didn't think that they did, but it shows when we're at the range in the different film sections. So that's probably all. I mean, I'm shy in a lot of ways that I don't like a lot of attention on me, but I forgot the camera was there.So that's what was really interesting because I would have probably been more self conscious about the camera. And I wasn't. Even as I watched it, I wasn't thinking like, oh, I've gained a lot of weight, but I've lost weight now, so, ooh, I look bigger then.And you know, sometimes you'll be worried about, is your hair out of place? And, and it's funny, I know it was God because I had a spirit of peace that I didn't focus on, that he wanted me to focus on the story.

Yeah.

And I've watched it over 15 times and not one time did I criticize myself. So that's what I learned. That's good. That a story was to be told.And I shouldn't have thought about what I looked like because it was told and I was told.

Yeah, that's really cool. Congratulations.

Thank you.

You know, that's, that's really exciting.You know, as a black woman building a business in a space where we don't often see ourselves represented, what challenges and opportunities have you encountered?

I love this question. I do.This is a male dominated field and I have really been embraced by white males in some respect when I'm at the range because there's no competition with them. And I hate to Say this, just that the reality is I got a lot of publicity when I started the business.And I could tell some people, you know, don't care for women instructors.I do have two buddies that are instructors who are super supportive, but I've seen the aggression when I'm at the range, right, with one guy for sure. Two of them, I should say. And what I've seen is I had, at one point, I had two male instructors that worked with me one time.You know, they would not be together, but, you know, if I was teaching a class or they were teaching a class, we were there together tag teaming on a Sunday, because it's a two part part that we need to do. And they would go to the men and ask them about the business. And when they would tell them, well, this is the owner, the energy would shift.And I remember one guy said, hey, my girl needs to learn how to shoot. You know, da, da. He says, well, hey, this is Lynn, this is the owner. And it was like, oh. And he walked away. So that guy. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.And so that's been striking because I'm dismissed in some ways.I see people admiring or watching from afar, but it doesn't bother me because I know it's a male dominated field and I know what I know and I know what I don't know. And I don't try to be Rambo girl. And I don't try to compete, you know, with anybody. I have a divine assignment and my assignment is mine.And this was not something I ever thought I'd be doing in retirement. I know this ain't me. I know this is God, because I was scared of guns. Terrified. And I know my place and I know what I know.And so that's been the biggest surprise, the way I've been embraced with some and in others, like, mm, that's that. So that's it.

Unbelievable. You know, there. It reminds me, there's a story of.I was in a photo club with this photographer who was a pilot, and he met a couple who was getting married. She said her fiance was. She said she was fearful of flying, but her fiance wanted to, like go to Hawaii or something.And so she hired him to take, you know, some private lessons, like to get used to flying or whatever. And she said, oh, this is sort of fun. I want to go back up.He said that that woman started taking flight lessons and pursued becoming a commercial pilot, but she was terrified going up. And he said she never got married, but she is a pilot for United. And so it's just so funny. Like how.Yeah, like how you can be fearful, but how you, like, embrace that fear and then what can become of it?

Right.

You know?

Right. And my co workers, actually, the guy that taught me, he said, this is so shocking.Every time I go back for retirement, it was like, you were the last person we thought that would have a gun education business. I mean, literally, because I was so like this. I mean, when I shot the first time, I leaned back. Cause he was right in my ear. I started crying.I said, I want to go home. And I was a supervisor, the only black supervisor to. But I had to humble myself. Not even had to. I was humble because I was learning something new.And I was the only person at the job that hadn't gone through it. But I leaned back and he leaned forward and he said, you got this land. You gonna do this? But I was scared. I was scared.And then to see something in the women that I was experiencing when I retired, I said, I'm getting ready to start this because I know what I experienced. So what better person than somebody who has a personal testimony.

Yeah. Is Ladies of Steel just black women?

So, no. What happened? We've had three white women join.

Okay.

And I remember the first person, when she joined, she called me. She had seen an article in the Tribune. She said, I'm gonna be your first white woman. I said, well, come on.And just as sweet as can be, she came to the documentary. And, you know, she clicked. You know, we. You know, we embraced her. And she came. And then another lady came. She stayed the longest, I believe.And then another lady came, kind of a short time frame. So I think they came and got what they needed and left. And one person, Katie, is still more connected.She stayed and did the NRA Distinguished Expert Shooting Challenge that we did.

Oh, wow.

And so she did it. I paired her up with one of the ladies, and they become best friends. And that's what's been great. I mean, you know, people have embraced one another.But Kathy came to the documentary, and it was really good to see her. And she recognized, you know, I'm in this group with all these African American women.I'm the minority, but I know what we're here for, and we embrace them as if there was nothing different. Like I've said to people in interviews, when you look down the range, we're all shooting in the same direction.We all had the same goal to defend ourselves or our family. So you can say it's racism at the gun range. For me, it's what are we all doing?We're focused on our second amendment right and what we need to do to protect ourselves.

Yeah. What have you learned about leadership from growing a community centered organization?

Well, what I've learned is you cannot accept everybody's money. You have to be willing to walk away from business. You have to not let people destroy your brand. And I'll give you a quick example.A girl asked me to write a chapter in a book.

Okay.

And I wanted to know what the chapters were about, who was writing them, and it didn't align with my brand, and I was real clear of that. So when it comes to leadership, I am very conscious of who I align myself with, who I support with ads, and who I let attach themselves to me.Even with my instructors, I've never had turnover. I kept a tight group, and they understood real clear what I wanted them to teach.I wanted it to be consistent and that I wasn't afraid to say, hey, I think you need to change that language, because that's not what I'd like to portray. So leadership is tough. And having those tough conversations, they're hard.But the good news is once you have it, unless somebody takes it so personally, you can move on.

Yeah.

And it's tough to have it. But, you know, I've told this story. You know, there was a sorority member that wanted to take one of our classes.And I had been watching her on Facebook, not intentionally kind of monitoring her, but when she said, oh, yeah, I'm going over on 103rd and I'm taking class with my sorora, I was ready. Right.Because I already knew that I was going to say to her, you need to do a chill out for a minute because I can't let you come and take class because whatever you do is gonna be a reflection of me.

Yeah.

So when she called, she was mad. She cussed me out. I was waiting on the blowback on Facebook. Not from people, but just her. And I said to her, I seen the anger management I've seen.And this is not a let me go get my gun and be Annie Oakley and hurt somebody. So eventually, you know, she said, okay. She apologized. She never took class. But I knew that I needed to say, you can't.So when I tell this story, it's not to disparage my sorority. It is to say, this is how far I go and when I draw the line when it comes to my business, and not just my business, this is related to guns.

Yeah.

This is serious.

Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak to Just advice for Entrepreneurs coming up just about taking seriously their name and their brand.

Yeah. So one thing that I learned and I tell you, whenever somebody asks me a question like this, you know what I tell them?Don't let people waste your time. Yeah, girl, I spend so much time letting people give me a pitch and calling me saying, can I set up a meeting?So 10 minutes turns into 30 minutes to an hour and. And then you realize you've wasted time because it's something they have that I don't need. Right. Or maybe can't afford or whatever.So would I tell you that is the single most lesson and don't chase money and be willing to walk away from a deal and know your worth. But what I do tell people now is, and it changed everything I said to people, tell them to send you the proposal in writing.See, they don't wanna do that. They wanna send, come talk and convince you. So when I tell them to send it to me in writing, I can tell you I probably got five out of 20.

Wow.

Because they didn't have it in writing, they didn't want to send it and they wanted to come and do this pitch and keep talking and talking till they convinced me. I'm not that kind of person that could be easily convinced. So that's advice.But being able to walk away from a deal and know your worth, people will lowball you. And if they can't afford it, well, you know what, circle back. Let me know when you're ready.

Yeah.

Now there are things when I did early on to get going, I did some seminars for free. I priced my classes reasonably, not what they play in gurney. I priced based on competitors in the area.And also I learned that if I dropped my price lower and $95, I got a different clientele.

Yeah.

And that's what I learned when I did it one time because people said, oh, offer this and lower your price. Oh, honey, it was a whole different clientele. And I said never again. People will pay what they want to pay.And I said to people, get Google reviews, don't get people to do stuff in writing. Which I did early on. People want to go to Google and Yelp and see tangibly what people got.And I do that and have factored it in and it has made a difference too with clients.

Okay. And what if in. Yeah, I guess like if people are like you're too expensive, you just say okay or just circle back when you're ready. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, what I do say to people is read my reviews. Okay, I challenge you. If you take class. If you're not satisfied, I'll give you your money back.Now I don't do that as a. I don't put that on my website because people are slick.

Yeah.

But I do say to people, I guarantee you my experience is not going to be like any other business experience. Go read my reviews. Over 600 five star reviews.

Yeah.

No question. So after that, I don't have any issues. I really don't. And one guy said it, and I said, okay, I challenge you. And he did.He came to class, he gave a rave review, verbally. He said, you know, I know how to do this. And da, da, da, da. And he said, but I learned a lot in here.So I don't let people tell me my classes are too high. Cause I know what they're getting. They're getting information overload. Now what I will say I do situational awareness trainings.I, I have a nonprofit fee and I have a corporate fee. I'm not stupid because I know it's two different things.But what I won't let people do is tell me that, you know, there's no compensation, but you know, this would be great exposure. I don't do that. Not in the middle. And I'll give you a really, really quick example. Organization is having a big conference here.I'm familiar with them because I'm retired law enforcement. And when they called to talk preliminarily about my availability, the girl said, well, I don't think it's any conversation.I can't wait for the person to call me because I've already looked up the registration fees. How many people attend this event? They had stupid money.And you're not going to have me come and talk in front of these people for a workshop and not pay me because I know you paying somebody else that doesn't look like me because that's the business. I know that. So that's what we have to be smart about.Just because of an opportunity, I'm not standing up there for free because I've had to prepare, I had to do this, this and this until I. And last thing I've had somebody say, you get paid that for an hour. Yep. Because I'm the subject matter expertise.

Yeah.

I'm expert. So I know what I know. And you're paying for my expertise. And I'm not outrageous, but I'm not gonna let you dumb me down.Cause you don't have a business and you don't think I should get paid this much.

Yeah. And again, it's about guns. You know, it's about guns. It's very serious.

Yep.

Yeah. Javonda Lynn, thank you so much. Before you go, I just have one question. How often should folks be practicing gun safety?

My. One of my other favorite questions. So I always laugh and say the people on the street are practicing. Right?And so if we don't practice, we're not gonna be ready for them. They're ready for us, but we're not ready.So once a month, you can take a box of ammo, 50 rounds, and get in and out of the range in less than 30 minutes. Less than 30 minutes. So if you can do one day a month, pick a day when it's not crowded. Practice at 5 yards to get proficient.That's usually where your threat is going to be, if not closer. But practice at 5 yards. Know where your target is, where you can hit, which is center mass, not headshots. Cause headshots are here.If I'm shooting a headshot, I can miss all this space. So the center mass is where all your organs are.So if you practice where you should be proficient at, then you know more than likely you're gonna hit your target. So 50 rounds once a month is what I recommend. Okay, that's it. That's it. And then you at least know your gun is clean.Cause you're gonna clean it at some point. You know it's gonna work and you're not gonna be fumbling if, God, something happens. And I haven't shot my gun in six months.Every month I know I've been pulling that gun out of the holster and I'm shooting that firearm and I know what I'm doing so that I'm not panicking when it's time to really shoot.

Yeah, that's really great advice. And yeah, that seems simple enough. You know, where can folks find you?

So my classes are held on 111th and Kedzi. You can look on my website, jmd defense.com and you can look under classes and gift cards and sign up for one of the classes.And that's pretty much it. So it's the website. And if someone wants a personal private lesson, I do provide those one on one. People don't want to be in a group setting.And so all of the services are right on the website and a little bit about my background even more. And some of the instructors and things that we've done.

Thank you so much for providing such a serious service to our country.

Thank you.

And thank you so much for being on noseyAF.

I love it and I thank you for this opportunity.I tell people there are opportunities to get your message across and this here is a great opportunity to get this message across because it took nothing for me to do this for an hour because I could talk about this all day. I got so many stories. I loved it.

Yeah. Thank you.That concludes another episode of noseyAF31 Days of Black Business. I'm your host and friend Stephanie Graham. I hope you took something away from today's conversation and had a good time hanging with us.Be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about today's guest and consider supporting their work. You know how it goes, whether you're making a purchase, hiring them or simply spreading the word. Listen, who doesn't love a referral?It truly all makes the difference. Quick thank yous go out to Queen Lex and Freddie. Bam Bam.For the noseyAF theme music and Emma McGorick who hooked me up with the COVID art and branding. Shout out to the partners and supporters for this series. You could check them out in the show notes as well. Super grateful for a partner. Hello.That's the show Friends until tomorrow. Stay curious and take care. Bye.