Coaching Is Not a Meritocracy with Serena Hicks

Hey, friends. Welcome, and welcome back to nosey AF conversations about art, activism and social change.I'm your host and friend, Stephanie Graham, and we are celebrating Black business month with 31 days of black business, where every single day this month, I have been talking to a super wonderful, super red, super inspiring entrepreneur. So Today's guest made $400,000 as a coach before she ever got certified. And over $3 million in six.Serena Hicks will tell you exactly how, and she'll also tell you that 85% of coaches are doing their sales calls wrong. You might have a life coach, but y', all, your life coach also has a life coach. And Serena is who the coaches call.Just a heads up that we do talk about grief and family loss in this one, but it's super quick and it's right up front. So I want you to know that it's coming so that you could take care of yourself.With that being said, here is the lovely theme song that I adore so much. And then we will speak to Ms. Serena Hicks. Welcome to nosey AF.

Gotta get up, get up tell the whole world you a winner winner vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you doing, how you doing, what you doing and who you are Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself, don't wreck yourself if you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie Graham is nosey.

Serena, welcome to nosey af.

Thank you very much. Happy to be here with you.

Yes. So you started coaching shortly after losing your brother, which my condolences first and foremost. And leaving corporate America, getting pushed out.Getting pushed out of corporate America.

I got pushed out unceremoniously. So my boss and I had been beefing, to be clear.New owners came in, and so my boss was under pressure, had to cut a whole bunch of money, like the salary, and it was a sales department. And my boss cut, like, half of my quarterly bonuses, which was a significant amount of my annual take home pay.And I went into his office and like, what is this? I'm one of your highest earners. We just did my last performance review. I'm killing it.And he told me, serena, you are a single unmarried woman with no children. I pay you plenty. Thus began the beef. And in the end, it took about two months to unravel. I was like, I'm raising my hand for a severance program.And he was like, that will embarrass me. You're one of my star people. If you raise your hand, that's embarrassing. And I was like, well, you're not paying me. Yeah, so what do I do?I'm leaving. And I raised my hand and he did what he told me, which was he pushed me out unceremoniously. Unceremoniously.HR called me in at lunch and we're like, you can get your stuff and leave out of a side door, or we can like escort you out of the front door. And then two weeks later, my older brother passed away from cancer. He was 13 months from diagnosis to death. And so I was like, what is life?Like, what is.

Oh my gosh, what is life?

You can kill it at a company and, you know, through a turn of events, new ownership, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, unceremoniously be pushed out, no severance.

Wow.

My older brother was 47, so 46 when diagnosed, 47 when dead. And it was this, like, what is life? Was my real question. I was 40 and then I found coaching.

Yeah. Wow. That is. I'm sorry. It feels like when it rains, it pours.

That's the right thing. And also it woke me up.It was the feeling for me, other than grief, obviously, and like identity, because we all identify with our job or our career and our loved ones. And I was 40 and my 47 year old brother was dead. I have a younger brother who's alive and well, thank God.But I. I started thinking, like, it's not a dress rehearsal.

Yeah, man. Because that's what I was. I was gonna ask was like, how did these, how did these huge events shape the business that you've built now?

I was broken open and maybe for the first time, actually, as you know, I was at a writer's retreat and I'm like, that might be the title of the new book, as in Broken Open Again, but it's different. But I. It was just a real reckoning for me in that I found myself out of a job also grieving my older brother who died at 47. So again, it was a real.For me, a reminder, like, maybe you don't live to be 90. Like, all these things. I knew I wanted to be a coach in high school. I worked with a phenomenal therapist.I was depressed my senior year in high school, and the therapist changed my life. And I remember thinking, I want to be a therapist. But also I went to college and was. I was like, I'm not gonna be a 22 year old therapist. People do.But I knew that wasn't me. I was like, what do I know? I don't know. So I was like, I'll live and Then I'll become a therapist. And always loved personal growth.I love my family very much, but, like, highly traumatized. Both bloodlines coming together. And so I've always loved, like, you know, Abraham Hicks. My last name is Hicks.No relation, but, like, reading Abraham Hicks books in the late 90s and early 2000s. And I can't say I fully understood everything, but I was always attracted to it.And so when I was kicked out of my job, my brother, older brother, died two weeks later. So I was watching bad TV and drinking cheap red wine and really questioning my life. And I was also, like, broke. I was basically paycheck to paycheck.And I was like, I've had this phenomenal career. I lived and worked in New York City for 10 years. I worked in MTV News. Like, how is it I only have enough money? As in, it didn't add up.And at the same time, I had a friend, a dear friend, whose boyfriend, now husband, had just started a business and was like, can you help me with my PR and marketing and social media? I want to hire you as a consultant. And so I'm grieving, I'm broke. Sis.

Yeah.

And I have a guy basically banging down my door being like, can you give me a proposal? I know I want to hire you. And so I remember one night being like, hey, I think there's something wrong with me.Not necessarily fundamentally broken, though. We all have those fears in our darkest hour. But, like, how have I had all of these really great jobs and I don't have money?

Yeah.

Like, I've basically been paycheck to paycheck. Like, the math doesn't math.And then I remember thinking of, like, at one point when I lived in New York City, I. I went from MTV News to the MTV Network's parent company, Special Events Department.

Okay.

So we plan special events for launch parties at Spike TV to, like, executives who. Sometimes, you know, we're like, we need a private dining room for six people.

Sure.

Blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

And work for some of the greatest people. I have to say that.And I remember, like, I had these guy friends who, like, worked on Wall street, and sometimes they would email me because, girl, we didn't text back then the way we do now.

Right?

And they were like, like, it's so funny. Like, or, you know, AOL instant message. And they'd be like, serena, I need to impress, you know, some people.What's a hot place, you know, for six people? Private dining room needs to be Lower east side. And I'd like, fire out four different Gems. And they were always like, how can I thank you?As in, do you want cash? And I would always like, oh, no, no, no. You know, we're just friends. And I was like flashing back on that as I was broke.And I'm like, I've always been overly helpful because I like it. But like, when someone says, how can I thank you?Instead of saying, like, I would just love a 300 gift card or answering their question, like, these Wall street guys, like, their assistants couldn't give them the information I was giving them.And you know, it wasn't going to be a $10,000 bill, but if I was like, you know, send me money or the next time, if I'd even named an expensive handbag.

Yeah.

Half of them would have been like, done. Because God knows how much money I was making them throwing out this insider information.

Right? Yeah.

Seriously, I literally have no idea. I'm like, I'm guessing half of those dinners resulted in six figure clients and multiple six figures.So all of it to say, it was like, something's disconnected in me. And I ended up googling, how do you know how to charge people? Cause I was so scared to put a price. So that was the other thing.I was like, I guess I'll just work for free. And then I was like, why would it work for free for my friend's boyfriend again, right?

He said job. He said job.

And even if he didn't, like, it's a job, like, what is?

What is?

What is what? Something's missing. And so I googled, like, how do you know how to charge people? And I ended up on a money Mindset coaches website.And I was like, what is money mindset? And then at some point I was like, oh, I gotta hire this person. And then it said that she charged 5,000 U.S. for six weeks.And I was so offended by the thought that I closed out my, like, Safari. And then I closed my laptop and then I like, walked to the other side of my studio apartment.Like, I was so offended I had to like, close everything physically. And then two weeks later, nothing was different in my life because when I closed it all down, I swore. I was like, I'll just use her freebie.And I'd printed out her freebie and two weeks later, nothing had changed. Her now husband is still emailing me. Like, Serena, I'd very much like to hire you. Love, Leo. And. And I'm like, okay. So I get on a consult with her.I did not have 5,000 to my name. I repeat, I did not. I'D already cashed in what little was Left in my 401k.

Yeah.

I was upside down on my car payment. I was renting an apartment. This. This wasn't a. I didn't want to use my credit card. There they were maxed out. Like, there was not 5,000.And I remember in that console, understanding she can help me. And not that she was the magic, but that together, collaborating and coaching, I was going to change my whole life.And I remember advocating for her, like, explaining, I don't have 5,000, but I know I want to work with you. If you'll let me do a $1500 payment to get started, I'll pay you another 1500 in two weeks.Stephanie, I don't know where the other 1500 is going to come from. I just knew, you know, when you.

You're like, let's get started.

That's it. And advocating for myself. And I have to tell you, like, not three months later, I'm in this insane upgraded apartment.I lived in Austin at the time, and I'd already also given notice on my lease before my brother died. And when I circled back to the apartments, they were like, girl, we already rented your apartment. We can move you another unit.But, like, you can't stay here. Someone literally has a lease.So I ended up through what sounds like a miracle, and obviously is, but, like, when we step out in faith, yeah, Life will meet us.So I end up in this high rise doorman apartment overlooking Town Lake, paying less than half of rent because a friend's friend was engaged and wasn't living there and was trying to Airbnb. And he was like, why don't you just pay less than half of rent? And I'm not making sometimes less, sometimes more. Airbnb worried about my apartment.You know, he was already living with his fiance.

Yeah.

So he was just like, it's a win, win.

Yeah.

Better for me. You need somewhere to live. We have a mutual friend. Just magic and miracles.And I met a guy who I'd end up living with for three years and falling in love with. And it was just a. Was just a real blooming in my life. And it started with me investing in coaching.And I want to use those words very carefully because, like, she was an effective coach for me for that period of time. We're no longer connected, you know, it's not like she was the magic.It was who I became when I decided I want tools that clearly I don't know on my own. And I want to be in collaboration And I'm going to pay for it. And again, I didn't have the money. So, like, I'm notoriously five minutes late.But like, when I tell you I showed up 10 minutes early for every session.

Yeah.

Like my life was, you know, I was like 10 minutes early with my notes. Whatever the homework was, I got it done. I was in. And there was a blooming.And then maybe a few months later, a friend of mine who was a certified coach, you know, I was like, I want to be a coach, but like, I don't have money for certification. And she was like, why do you think you need to be certified? And my offer would be as a woman of color. As a half black woman. As a black woman.

Yeah.

We always have to like prove ourselves. And she was like, I'm in a room with like 30 people and half are certified and half aren't and they're all making money.And I gave myself permission because she had worked with the life coach. School has a tool called the model.

Okay.

She had taught it to me. And I really appreciate the audacity that younger Serena chose. Cause it was a choice to be like, yeah, I know how to use the model. I did.Coaching changed my life. So I felt in integrity.

Yeah.

I wasn't. I do have judgment towards.I'm sorry, I want to confess, but you know, some people are like, I just got into coaching to make money and work four hours a week. And I'm like, and that's why you're not making money.It's not that you need to be obsessed with it at four hours a week is, you know, that's after you've made your multimillions and have systems in place and have really developed an audience based on all of the value you've poured in for 10 years. That's not a starting situation. But I was. My heart was on fire for coaching because of how it changed my life.

Yeah.

So selling coaching and offering coaching didn't feel sleazy or slimy.

Yeah.

It was a gift I offered others and myself. And so that is how I got into coaching. And almost seven years later, I'm like, I love it. I think it's a gift. I think it's what will heal the world.

Yeah. I think it does get a bad rep from like the Instagram self defined coaches and stuff.

Some people. But I've. Some people, I've come to peace. So I used to defend, there's no such thing as a bad coach. Now I'm like, there's bad coaches to get It.Okay, I won't apologize. Please take, take what I said away. I'm sorry. I believed it at the time. I am now aware personally and I coach mostly coaches.Most of my clients are coaches.And I have had conversations in particular in private coaching that I'm like, oh, there's some messed up people out there charging very much and very little for coaching. They don't live in any one niche. They don't live at any one price point. There are bad coaches. But I also want to offer.Unfortunately, any industry that involves humans involves bad.

Of course, yeah, like mostly good.

But like school teachers, police officers, clergy. There's good and bad everywhere. So I will now acknowledge there are some very annoying coaches.But what I actually really like is the low bar of entry. And I think it's.

That is true.

I like it because. Well, so for me, first of all, I had no money when I started.I am super anti certification, specifically because certification does not guarantee competence.

Okay. Yeah.

Licensing and legislation do not guarantee competence. As someone who's seen many therapists over the years, there are two I should have reported and I promise they were fully licensed, fully verified.I have a cousin on my mom's side of the family who was molested by her psychiatrist.

What?

I'm just saying regulation does not make the bad eggs disappear.What it does is make it harder for historically marginalized humans who don't necessarily have 20,000 available for the certification and verification process. I didn't have it when I started.

Yeah.

And what I like about the low barrier of entry is everybody be prepared to potentially be upset by what I'm going to say. But I'm going to say it.

We're ready.

What I like about the low barrier of entry is like you sink or swim. I had made 400,000 cash collected as a coach before I went and got my certification. Now I love to learn and I love coaching.I'm constantly collecting not just certifications, but new trainings. I will do that my whole life.

Yeah.

But I, who started in a pile of debt and with a broken heart was able to pay off that debt, get my feet under me. And 400,000 cash collected before. And the program that I chose at that time, the Life coach school, charged 21,000.And like a lot of people in my cohort, like their spouse or they just had 21,000, good for them.

Yeah.

But if coaching required a license and all of that, I would not have been allowed. And for those who are like, you know, what's your point about making 400,000? Is you don't make $400,000 accidentally. You make it by referral.You make it by people who have great experiences who refer people and like raising rates. And nobody's spending 10, 15, and 20,000. No matter how much money you have, that's not a casual investment.So the low barrier of entry, much like in real estate.

Sure.

A lot of people want to get in and be excited.

Yeah.

But you either learn your audacity and to value your unique ability and your unique point of view, or you don't. And there's so much that can be made. But I sort of, for me, it just feels like it's a more even playing field.

Yeah.

That you can just say, I'm a coach and I. There are bad ones. But I like that for us, I don't want it to be like the medical industry, which, again, plenty of bad eggs there.It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to even get in the game.

Yeah.

And get into a medical school.

How did you define your unique advantage as a coach? Or how did you like how. How have you designed your style over the years?

So it wasn't so much as a design as it revealed itself to me. And that is always what I suggest to people is like, get in the game. Get your 10,000 hours. It'.So I. I started because I was in love with it, as we said, and I needed money. To be clear. Anyone's like, I'm in it for money. I'm like, that's so I. That's what I was. I.

Right. It's a business. It's a business.

I want it to be. I get really ragey when people do it for free because it undercuts the market.

Yeah.

Don't let the coaches come. Tell me, like, my husband pays for everything and I don't need money. I don't care. Like, some female surgeons don't need the money either.And they charge because it's an industry and they don't want other females to be like, oh, you're not allowed to charge because, you know, Jamie over there doesn't need the money, so you can't. I'm pro. Don't undercut the market and don't undervalue. So if you work for free, like, let it be a hobby, that's totally fine.But I also like the legal model. You know, lawyers work for free sometimes, but they call it pro bono. Yeah, they're clear. They're clear.Especially those who are like, oh, I just do pro bono. Like, they don't posture. Like, they're a Winning trial lawyer or they're killing it in corporate. Like, no shame, no shade, but know who you are.Okay, so your question was like, what was my market? I needed money. So I was like, hey, I'd been, I'd been like consulting.And I was really annoyed by some of my clients who were like shooting themselves in the foot.And then that's where I was having my conversation with my coach at the time, who was a different coach than the original, who was like, you can coach. You do know how to use the model. Yeah, you can teach it. And I was like, I can't. And she's like, yeah, you just tell people I'm a coach.And then you coach that, you know, define what the container is, what you're going to charge, what it's going to be. And you just tell people and when they're into it, you send them a contract, invoice them, and you rock and roll. And I was like, okay, I can do that.So that's how I got into it. And I started just general. Just general.So my first clients, because most of the consulting I'd been doing was about like marketing and telling your story, which is so fun because I still have friends who are like, I tell people you teach marketing. I'm like, not really, but also great. So helping a lot of small business owners. And pretty soon it became coaches tell their story.Because they were like on Instagram just screaming, hire me. Yeah, yeah, I'm bored. Are you bored?

Yeah. Like, hire you for what exactly?

Why? Why? I don't know you shit. I don't owe you shit. You know, people like, I'm having a sale, I need to pay rent. Hire me.Like, I'm sorry about your rent situation, but I'm not sending money. This is not a charity. Yeah, tell me what I get. And you now have my attention.So I was helping people, like share in a way that's like, you know, tell people who you are and what do they get? Was also part time working for a company that I really liked, Contract. And it was right around Thanksgiving of 2019. It was Thanksgiving of 2019.And I was at a wedding with my boyfriend. He's sleeping peacefully in bed. Cause he has a job. And I remember getting an offer from that company and it was like more money than I'd ever made.But I also remember being like, if I take that offer, coaching has to go away. Because it was about election stuff. And it was like 2020 was an election year. And it was like, no way.You know, seven days a week on the road, I was like, ah. So I said no to them and I panicked. And then I was like, okay, I'm in. Like I'm in.And I like posted and posted and posted Instagram and Facebook because I didn't have money for ads.

Yeah.

So just using organic marketing because that's, that's what was available to me. And one of my clients re upped. So I was like, all right, we can pay December rent.And then that December, by a happy accident, five people booked consults in a three day period. And all five of them said yes.

Wow.

So I woke up on Monday. I did consults Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And on Friday I had $25,000 cash because five people had said yes. And I was like, I'm a coach.And then I was like, possibly a business coach. I'm not sure, but like, I feel like I want to help other. Because I had all these coach friends.

Yeah.

And then they weren't making money, but they thought it was because they weren't a good coach. And I'm like, no, like the best baker doesn't necessarily have a thriving bakery like it is. And it is not a meritocracy at the same time.And I was like, okay, I think I'm going to start telling people, like, I can help you with business coaching. Because I had never made $25,000 in any way, shape or form in one month, let alone doing work I loved.So I was like, I want to help my friends do this. And then a few months later, one of the clients hired me. Literally hired me because she was struggling with her girlfriend, now wife.

Okay.

And wanted to make a healthy decision about do I double down in this relationship or have we run its course. And by the end of our six month coaching container, it was a. This has not run its course. Years later, they're happily married.

Oh, great.

But we weren't there yet. And this was like somewhere. The end of the six month coaching container was like April, May of 2020. And along the way she worked for Apple.She got like a $30,000 raise.

Wow.

That she hadn't lobbied for. And she like came to one of our sessions and was like, they mentioned I'm different and how responsible I am.And basically she was like, all the shit we've been working on in my relationship at home. Because how we do one thing is how we do everything was recognized in her office environment.And she got this sick promotion raise that she didn't even lobby for.And that was when I was like, I'm a business Coach, Even when we're not working on making more money, my clients are making more money just by virtue of focusing on, like, what we focus on, which is fundamentally, play to your strengths, communicate to the best of your ability, and, like, forgive yourself and others. Early and often, I became known and people celebrated me. And I liked talking about money mindset. I think it's the only privilege you can buy.

Yeah.

In particular for women, in particular for humans of color. A lot of us. I am a direct descendant of enslaved people here in Texas. And, you know, coaches call it scarcity mindset.These are just facts in history.

Yeah.

Like, we call it that, too. I have. But, like, yeah, I am a direct descendant of people who did not have a safety net. If they didn't have cash to pay, it wasn't there.So, like, I know. You know, like, it's. It's for all of your listeners.It's just like, listen, in the state of Texas, when enslaved people were set free, then it was suddenly illegal to be loitering, I. E. Standing around. So suddenly, oh, my gosh, you can't stay here. But also, if you're just hanging out, we can put you in jail.And I won't even speak to all the other atrocities. All that to say when my father, who is black and was a truck driver and worked at the same company, his whole, like, straight and narrow.And when I'm like, I want to do my own business, he discouraged me. Not because he didn't love me, but because that was fundamentally unsafe to him.

Yeah.

Safety is get a good job, be a good employee, hard stop. The end. And so I like money mindset in that you can audaciously declare and choose.And I believe it honors our ancestors to honor their sacrifice, honor their struggle, honor every time they were in tough situations and did the best they could by thriving and by acknowledging that was right for you. And, like, I stand on the shoulder giants. Thank you. But I'm gonna do some things differently in honor of your choices.

Yeah.

But to be very direct, I don't really stand on the money mindset flag. Cause you get a lot of people who are super into scarcity and crazy and show up and wanna make it my problem, and I don't.

I don't. Yeah, it's not your thing.

No, it's. Money mindset is a part of growing a healthy business. But I like to keep it there.Cause when I was flying the money mindset flag, I definitely got some irresponsible people who wanted me to be responsible for their life. By buying into, like, a 2K program. No. I'm gonna need to make a lot more money before I can be responsible for your life.

Yeah.And it sounds like those who go through life coaching and it's good I'm talking to you because I have a few friends who just finished a life coaching program. It seems like they still need coaching. Like, they. Like, they just didn't finish. Like, they need to. I'm gonna text them your website.I'm like, you need to talk to Serena, please.

Because I literally have starting. I'm calling it consultation closer camp, meaning people do consultations and sales calls.And most people, like, I think 85% of coaches do it all wrong. And I say this with nothing but love in my heart. I want everybody in the world to be coached up.

Yeah.

Every coach to have a roster that they feel good about working with. People they like being paid sustainable and fair pricing. Like, that is. That is my prayer for the world.

Yeah.

And it's wild to me how many coaches just think they're gonna. And I need to confess, I was one of them more than once. But, like, they're just gonna.Like, someone's gonna come in, and they're like, and my program is, like, $3,000, and we're gonna coach. Like, yeah, people need to. I believe in a container, and I'm like, a creative, free spirit, as you know.But, like, creativity and collaboration thrive in containers.

Yes.

Like actors workshops, painters work. Like, in a container.

Yeah.

You need the client to understand and feel in their body why working with that coach is their next step. So tell your friends, and if you're listening, in August, go to SerenaHicks.com. I got you.What I fundamentally believe is I'm starting with the enrollment call, sales call, consultation call. We're starting with that camp, and then next, I'm going to move into organic marketing.

Okay.

I want to start with the closing camp, because I think of it like this. I'm gonna. I'm single right now. So, like, let's say real example.I'm like, I just want to wear a cute little black dress and be invited to, like, a, you know, a bar and wear red wine. And you, Stephanie, are like, ooh, what dress will you wear? And I'm like, girl, I don't know.

Yeah.

You're like, go buy the dress.

Right.

So that the second someone asks you out, you're not like, can you give me three weeks? I have to go shopping. You know, you can be like, I can see you tomorrow night, no problem.

Right.

And that's why I'm starting with the consult. And marketing will be next. So anyone listening, come see me@SerenaHX.The consult thing will probably be a course, meaning if it's not, live in another cohort, which it may be, but like, the course will be available.

Okay.

And then the marketing. Because I want. I want everyone, the second someone is interested to feel confident.

Yeah.

And generous. When they're like, let's do a discovery call, we can move to marketing next.But I want them to feel ready if an acquaintance, a cousin, a stranger on the Internet is like, I'm interested in your coaching.

Yeah. Yeah.

I want them to feel great. We're going to do what I call a discovery call. Like I want them to.

Because when you stay ready, you never have to get ready.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's exactly it. And some people are like, first I need my website, then I need my marketing.I'm like, well, apparently you don't need money because you seem to be lining up the two year plan. And the gift of me starting dead broken. I didn't have time for brand colors. Me and squarespace for two hours.Like I didn't have the luxury of procrastibranding.

Yeah. Got that. Oh, my God. I want to ask you this one question before we wrap up.You talk about conventional business practices being created by and for wealthy white men.For someone who's hearing that for the first time, how can they evaluate a business rule or strategy and recognize whether it was designed with the narrow set of experiences and assumptions in mind?

Easy, easy. Thank you. Let's just assume it was designed for old, wealthy white men. The end. That's it.

Just coming out the gate.

Okay.

Just like you can research me, you can research that you can get an mba. The answer is that's it. I mentioned. I mean, that's literally. And I live in the great state of Texas.Like I said, direct descendant of enslaved people. My father is a black man. Unfortunately, he was in a car accident a couple years ago. Brain injury.

Sorry. Wow. Thank you.

It's quite an event. It's the new book and. Or the book. The first book I'm writing. And long story short, I spent majority of 20, 25 and tens of thousands of dollars.I got $60,000 in legal billing. I did not pay $60,000 just to get legal protections in place for my brain injured father. How much am I reimbursed? Not one penny.Did I have to cover his advocate attorney?

Yes.

And it was such a powerful he is a black man. But the laws were designed to protect the person with the most property and power. That is true across the United States and any colonized country.Just so we're clear and like it. It. I mean, it's just. It was such a painful and baffling experience. It's much like a lot of us are far too aware if a woman is. Or a man.But if a woman is sexually assaulted, she has to prove it.

Yeah.

The laws are designed to protect the person in power, which in the United States will always default to the man. Like, she has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened. That's how the laws are designed. So to answer your question, just go with me.All the assumption is that's who it was made for. And for me, that's part of the power and purpose and healing involved in women and people of color.And anyone from a historically marginalized community or any white man who is also an ally, who's like, I am not threatened by people of color and women. I am here for all of us to be together.It's part of the power and the purpose of us getting paid to do our work in building our business sustainably, profitably, and I dare say in the system. I think of Star wars and how the Death Star got blown up. Had to get it from the inside. That's how we blow it up. I'm not in the camp, respectfully.That is like, you know, we have to do everything completely different. I'm like, that may work. I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm from the camp of work with what we got right here.And I think there's a sense of permission that has to be given to color outside of Alliance. And white men are fine with it.

Yeah.

People of color, women, non binary. We have been socialized to color within the lines, to play by the rules, to work twice as hard for half as much and say, thank you a lot. And I am.I hope I am. I believe I'm part of paving away of, like, that's what our ancestors had to do. I'm very, very grateful and respectful of that.And also I'm like, welcome to the New World Order. I'm here.

Exactly.

You don't have to be thrilled. I am.

Yeah.

So I could actually see, like, taking courses with you would be so fun. Like, I feel like I would love selling with you. Thank you.

That's what I want. I'm like, I want everyone to understand, like, it's not a. Like, oh, God, will you Pay me. Like, it feels that way the first 10,000 times. It's a.It is a creative, a collaboration. It is a union that upright human beings get to be like, this is what we're doing now.

What is, like, one step to start to color outside of the line.

So for me, and it actually ties into one of your earlier questions, like, when did I give myself permission to be a business coach? So at very first, I was like, all of my people make more money. All of my people are doing well in business, even a corporate Apple employee.I filed a bankruptcy in 2008 for a failed business. And I was like, well, I can never be a business coach.I filed a bankruptcy in 2008, and then I woke up one day and was like, that's why I'm a good business coach.

Yeah.

A bankruptcy is the right call more than one time. Like, I'm not casual about it, but I fundamentally think it's like divorce or terminating a pregnancy.There's no casualness about it, but also, when it's the right move, it's the right move.

Yeah.

And you will always be judged by some people. But I can think of in both of those categories, terminating pregnancies and. Or divorce.

Divorce. Yep.

That again, a lot of people who don't know the whole situation or X, Y, and Z may have judgments, but we can't live our life for other people.

Right.

And you don't have to tell everyone, but if it's what's right for you.

Yeah.

Then it's a fuck yes for me. For you.If it's what sets you free, if it's what allows you to do and be who you came to this planet to do and be, then, like, the easy example for me is, you know, I hate the idea of some people, you know, are like, in the name of God, they stay married and they complain about their spouse their whole life and criticize their spouse their whole life and act like a victim their whole life. And I'm like, fucking get divorced. Be free. Stop acting like they are your ball and chain. Like, shush your mouth. God.

Didn't. Didn't.

That's not what you're here for, in my opinion. So.So when I. I gave myself permission when I stopped looking at my bankruptcy as evidence, as I was bad with money and I suddenly was respectful of its evidence. I'm good with money. It's evidence I'm an entrepreneur. It's evidence that I came to play.

Yeah.

I love this. It's like, you know what, guys? If you want to be A life coach. Be a life coach. Don't think about the Instagram world.

Well, there's always going to be complainers and in fairness.

Yeah, there's always going to be complainers. Right.

And I went down a rabbit hole two years ago suddenly, and I was like, oh, my God. And also, remember, the algorithm is going to feed you what you're looking at, so when you get stuck, you're stuck.

Yeah.

Get out of that vortex.

I'm so glad you're a positive influence to, you know, let folks know, you know, because you do hear that Instagram, Instagram is probably just not that great anyway because you hear that I have a neighbor who's a nutritionist who was just going off about that. Like one of her patients came in and she was like, where did you get this stuff from?

Instagram? Yeah, there was a lot of.I literally did a free training a few months ago and I don't even remember what I was bitching about, but it was literally in response to seeing someone's Instagram post being like, absolutely not. Yeah, absolutely not. Anybody can declare an authoritative voice on Instagram. Yeah, I don't remember.It was something about high ticket clients, which is. Is generally my price point start at $3,000 for programs, courses and up and, and whatever they were saying.I just remember being like, absolutely incorrect. It was something to the effect I'm making it up, but I'm not.It was something to the effect of like, what high ticket clients look for is like how you're dressed. And I was like, absolutely not. What they're feeling. Can you hold the container? Do you know your shit? I don't care if you're wearing ysl.Like, I don't care. I don't care. Which, like. And they don't either. Like, it's a. Can you hold me energy?

Yeah.

You know, I don't know, maybe. Maybe put an outfit on, I don't care. But like, it wasn't that. And this person was like, I signed $20,000 clients. I was like, you. You don't.I didn't tell them that. But in my head I was like, not once in your life have you done that.

But yeah, since coaching benefited you and the payment plan benefited you. Do you take payment plans?

I do. And that's actually one of the things I've flip flopped on.So when I started, and especially for people who are starting as I did, no shame, but I started broke, I required 5k pay in full.

Okay.

And I recommend it because what a lot of coaches do with their Coach Heart is. They're like, I want to be available to everyone. Well, I want you to be available for everyone in two years because your rent is paid.

Yeah.

So for real.

That's so real.

You can open up a payment plan when you are truly supported, because what happens? And then coaches like to be shocked. Always true. People default on payment plans. Most people pay.

Yeah.

Hard stop the end. But people default. And, you know, coach is like, they signed a contract. I'm like, nobody cares.You're not spending 5,000, taking them to court for 2,000, like, they've changed their mind. This happens sometimes.So I recommend for anyone who's starting out, who's not just swimming in cash, 5k pay in full or 3k pay in full, specifically because it requires the coach to call in the kind of client who has that money.

Yeah.

And to not be like, I want to help you out and do the payment plan. There are always exceptions.

Yeah.

But the client, just like me, will announce themselves and advocate for themselves. It's not you making it easy for the client.

Right.

The client will be like me in the situation that I was in. That was like, lady, let me explain to you how broke I am. And I.And I want to start, if you will let me start at 1500, you will have 1500 in two weeks. She wasn't, quote, making it easy. She didn't, quote, give me a poor person discount.

Right.

I spoke with another coach who I'd liked a few weeks prior who told me, oh, you can't afford me. Like, you've got to get your finances in order, circle back. And no disrespect, I know she's a great coach. She'd coach one of my friends.But I'm like, not the coach for me. I like the coach who was like, look at you. Little bold badass. Yeah. If you don't make your next payment, we'll be done. And it was like, no problem.And I did. And so I do offer payment plans at this time, because I can.

Yeah.

And it's important to me. But also for anyone who's like, I don't have the money for a coach. I've borrowed from family a few times.And just so we're clear, at no point did the family like that.

Yeah.

Nor understand what I was doing. The point is, I knew my next step was that coach.And so I used every resource available, which involved being like, hey, I'm going to need to borrow $10,000. And I understand. You don't understand. But it's imperative for me and my business. And if you say no, that's okay. Cause you don't owe me 10,000.But if you say yes, me and my business are gonna thank you. You'll be paid back at this time with this interest.So for anyone who's like, I don't have the money, sometimes that is the sacred jump to become the human who uses resources. I've had clients tap into 401ks, I've had a client sell their car to hire me. And these are not things I suggest.Yeah, but when they told me about it, I'm like, holy fuck. They are.

Yeah, they're serious.

They are doubling down on their future and they're willing to be uncomfortable right now for them. And I respect that. And it's not right for everyone.

So yeah, that is so true that.

People will like boldly ask if they really need something.

Like you don't need to go out and really like suggest that.

No.

And again, at this time, for anyone listening, you'll find a payment plan. If you're looking into a course or something. But not like for my private coaching, which is like 20k, I'm like 20k, that's fine.But also use my other resources to get there so that like I don't. It's, it's. But it's a very gray area. There's no wrong or perfect answer.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

Serena, thank you so much for talking with me today on nosey af.

Thank you for being nosey AF and thank you for this connection and thank you for letting me meet some of your community. And again, everyone find me@serenahix.com it's like the tennis player spelling.Yes, I'm older and not a billionaire, but I do love me some Serena Williams.

Who doesn't? Probably some Reddit thread that doesn't, but probably it's not our business. We certainly do not.

We do not. We do not care.

Serena. Everything about Serena Hicks will be in the show notes. And yeah, life coaches current upcoming hit up Serena. So get this businesses together.

Let's get you paid as a life coach. Let's let this be as big and bold as you want it to be. If you're just trying to make 50k a year, that's great.If you're like 250k is more my vibe a year, that's great. If you want to make multiple seven figures, also great.

Yeah, I love it.

That concludes another episode of nosey AF. 31 Days of Black Business. I'm your host and friend Stephanie Graham.I hope you took something away from today's conversation and had a good time hanging with us.

Us.

Be sure to check out the Show Notes to learn more about today's guest and consider supporting their work. You know how it goes, whether you're making a purchase, hiring them, or simply spreading the word. Listen, who doesn't love a referral?It truly all makes a difference.Quick thank yous go out to Queen Lex and Freddy Bam Bam for the nosey AF theme music and Emma McGorick who hooked me up with the COVID art and branding. Shout out to the partners and support supporters for this series. You could check them out in the show notes as well. Super grateful for a partner.Hello, that's the Show Friends until tomorrow. Stay curious and take care. Bye.