Stop Overthinking Your Brand: A Real Talk Guide for Creative Entrepreneurs with Bridget Baker

Hi, friend. Welcome. And welcome back to noseyAF conversations about art, activism and social change.I am your host and friend, Stephanie Graham, and today's conversation is such a good one.I am talking with my friend Bridget Baker, who is a brand builder and creative coach whom I met a few years ago when she was helping folks with organizing and minimalism. But these days, Bridget helps people simplify and clarify their brands.And not just the visuals, but basically helping you with the whole vibe of how you would show up. So Bridget is here today sharing her expertise on building a brand that truly feels like you.And we also talk about how AI and authenticity are shifting things and why flexibility and creativity matter more than perfection. So what a treat. Let's start our theme music and let's talk to Bridget Baker. Gotta get up, get up to the whole world. You a winner, winner.Vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you doing, how you doing, what you're doing and who you are Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself don't wreck yourself if you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie Graham is nosy as Bridget. Welcome to Nosy af. Yes.I'm so happy to have you here because, you know, with your business, you work with folks on branding, and so many of the listenership, including myself as artists, branding feels so overwhelming because it's just like, why do we have to use that word? But it makes sense to use that word.And I don't know, I guess my first question is, like, you say your superpower is giving permission for people to brand themselves in the way that they want. And what do you think it is that people need to give. Get permission from somebody to do stuff?

Yeah. Oh, gosh, where do I start? Okay. Like patriarchy, socialized female, like, all the things, you know, I think branding, right.We hear this branding concept and we think it needs to be this particular way. And it's a brand photo shoot, and it's perfectly polished and it's, you know, everything matches everything.And this sort of level of perfectionism, that's not authentic, right? We're almost, like, trying to make ourselves like AI. That's what we think branding is like. This is.When you're a web designer, this is what your branding should look like when you're this person and you. This is your audience. You should use purple or something like that, and so much more than that.So I think it's having to untangle, like this, these misconceptions about what branding is, or you see someone that you want to emulate that you aspire to be, that is famous. More famous than you. Right.And you go, oh, I should have my website look just like hers, you know, and that's never going to work because it's not you. So it might work initially. It might be like, oh, wow, that looks so glossy and beautiful.And then once you start doing your Instagram stories or your marketing or whatever, people are going to go, that's not the same person. Like, the way you're talking is not the same as what your website copy is. It's not the same as what your photos look like. Right.So it's basically giving people that permission to, like, be themselves from the start and brand from there instead of, like, who you want to be or who you think you should be.

So, like, is branding also just like your behavior?

Oh, that's a good way to put that. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do like a series. That's like, branding is. Yeah, branding is your behavior. I think branding is more even your.I mean, it's your personality. Because there's two things depending on what your business is. There's.There's a personal brand and there's a business brand, and then it's the places that they meet that I think are really important. Right. That's like the sweet spot. Because people go, oh, I don't know. Do I talk about my dog? That's like a big part of my personal life.But is that professional? If I put that into my website and I'm like, well, do those two things intersect? Like, is your dog a part of your business?Is it like a deal breaker if somebody's not into dogs and they work with you, you know, like, then your dog needs to be in there, right? If that's really something you're passionate about, because then it's going to connect you with other dog owners and things like that. Right? So it is.It's kind of your. Maybe not so much your behaviors, but. But your. What's underneath your behaviors, like your personality. What has.You go by that color of Stanley mug, you know, is it like. It's not just Instagram telling you? It's like, no, I, I. Pink is my thing. I have to have pink everything. Right.And so then it, like, becomes more than. It's like, why. There's some reason that. That came up for you initially. You know, I. Of this joke, like, I used to want. I had a pink bedroom.I was a ballerina too. So it was like ballerina pink or something. When I was A kid, I had this pink bedroom and I really wanted purple, though. And my mom was like. She had.My mom's designer. She was very into color. And she was like, advised me against purple for some reason. She's like, no, that's not you. You're a ballerina.You like, like, she tried to kind of brand me. And then later on in my adult life, I had a purple bedroom. At one point I was like, ha, ha. I get to have a purple bedroom now.Because I knew that's what I wanted. All like, we know ourselves better than other people can know us. Right. And so we have to know ourselves and then show people who we are.That's how they can connect. So, yeah, our behaviors might be two part of that.

Yeah.I guess I think about, like, going to dinner with friends and then say, like, a couple's at that dinner and they get into an argument and then somebody else like, you know what? I can't hang around Randall and Michelle. They are not good for my brand.

I like that so much. Well, because I think it's the thing. It's the. What is. If your brand is, like, calm and serene and chill and they're not that, then absolutely.They don't. They don't fit into that. I don't.There is another, like, way of looking at that that a coach and friend of mine, Marcia, says where she's like, does it. Does it give you energy or does it take away from your energy? Right. To, like, hang out with those people.If you're immediately like, oh, God, I got a brace for. What were their names? Michelle or something? Brandon and I just made it Randall and Michelle. Like, oh, God, we're going to have to hang out with them.I'm going to have to, like, put on a special outfit just so I feel, like, protected. I'm going to have to put on, you know, my glasses. So whatever.It's like, if you have to gear up to hang out with those people, they're probably not great people for you to hang out with.

Right? Yeah. You mentioned there's, like a personal brand and business brand. But what if. What if, you know, as Jay Z says it, I am the business.You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, think about the. Jay Z is a good example. Well, he's maybe a good example. I'm thinking of some more like, you.

Know, like, Megan, like, I think of his just quote where he's like, I. I don't know. It's like, I'm. I'm not a businessman. I'm a Businessman, you know, like that.

Well, because it does. That brand doesn't exist without him.

Yeah.

Like he is the brand. It's there. There almost is no separating, which is why we cancel celebrities when they do something bad that affects their whole brand. Right.When it's something that's maybe against what their brand values might be, it's like, wow, Then yeah, we can't unsee that. We can't. Unless they make repair. Like we can't undo that thing that they did that was so off brand for who they say they are. Right.So I think it's a lot of that.Like, yeah, if you're, if you're the brand, meaning you're just a one on one, one person shop or an artist or a celebrity or something like that, then absolutely. Like your brand is your name. Your brand is all the things you do and the ways you navigate the world. It's not necessarily just your work.It's your personality, it's your, it's your perspective.

Yeah. And that always seems so overwhelming. And it's like, okay, well, it is.

Because it's like that vulnerability, it's being vulnerable on the intern. That's where the permission slip comes in. That's where the, like a little bit of what I do is giving people permission to be like this way.They really want to be that they're scared that they can't be. Right.Like, that's the actual sweet spot of the branding is like this thing that's scary for you to share is probably the thing you should share because that's the thing that's going to make you the most vulnerable. That's going to have people connect with you and go, oh my gosh, you're a real person. Because that's what people want.They want to buy from real people. They want to feel like they're engaged in a conversation with that person.

How come branding always like has to equate to the, to the Internet and Instagram?

Good point. Yeah. I think a lot of it is because, you know, Instagram, let's. I mean, you've got this little tiny thing to write your profile.I was helping years ago. I helped a friend of mine. I've been with my husband, we've been together 18 years. So pre dating apps. So.But I crafted her little dating profile because you only get so many characters. And I was like, how are we going to introduce your brand in just this one little thing? And she is funny, she is clever, she's creative.Like, we had to get all of that in.So whether you're using emojis, whether you're not using emojis, whether you're saying what you do or sort of like something that's a little bit of a teaser, you know, like to get them to click more, you know, like those. Oftentimes you'll see like a Billie Eilish. I'm just saying of someone like that, someone huge. Huge. That has a huge following.It'll be like one really subtle, weird sentence. Because also everybody knows who Billie Eilish is, right. So they get to kind of be minimalist in their description.If people are coming across your profile not knowing who you are already, that little piece is your branding, that little profile is your branding. And then the way that you, you know, visually, it's because they're visual mediums, I think also like, same with a website, it's a visual medium.So you're using color, texture, font, imagery to convey your brand. Right.But it is, it's the way you talk everywhere when we talk about like brand consistency, like, can you be a different person than you are on your website? Yeah, maybe. I think that's another thing is sometimes the brand, you have brands that don't multi passionate people. Right.They have brands that don't necessarily mesh together. Like, we want to keep this guy way separate from this guy. And then those have to be branded very specifically.And if you don't want people to see both things, you do, that's. That gets a little bit tricky too.

Yeah, it gets really overwhelming. I'm always thinking, like with my podcast, it's like, oh, do I merge the two? Or like, I don't want people to always know about my podcast.I want people to also see my art. But like, if this is what I've been working on most of the time, this is what they'll see more. But I don't. So then I like struggle with that.Like, well, don't tell them about that. Let that be discoverable on its own. And I feel like I just step into a tornado that just takes me on a spiral.

Yeah, I mean, you, you contain multitudes. I think that's the thing. You have these different arenas that you share with the world. Your art, your work, your podcast.And so yes, they're each their own individual lane, but they're part of what make up you. Like, why, why did this person who does this art start this podcast? Why did this person who did this podcast do this art? Like, how do they.That's what makes it interesting. I know, like, I'll find someone that's written a book, and then it's like, what is their story of why they wrote the book?That's what's really interesting. It's not just the book. It's like, how did they get to this point of writing the book that's almost more interesting than the book itself?Sometimes, right, you're like, I want the backstory, right? And sometimes their books contain backstory, but sometimes they're just like, here's my success and here's how 10 steps to do whatever.You're like, I want to hear, like, the crappy part.I want to hear the part where your life was falling apart that got you to realize, like, how you make up the 10 steps actually kind of the important part.

So one thing I want to ask.So you've helped a lot of people, like, simplify and clarify their brands, and if you could think about, like, what's one messy or complicated brand story that you really helped transform? Does one come to mind?

Yeah, I work with some people that are at the beginning of some new project, and then some people have had something that's stale. So it's, like, been around for 10 years. They don't want to look at their brand. Their website, they've been doing pretty well.They've had all this momentum, but, like, nothing matches anymore. They're finding themselves not sharing. And so in that process, I worked with someone recently that was thinking, okay, I want to be like this.And she had this idea of what it was like because she's moving into some new things. Like, she's changing as a person. So in a way, I'm chasing, like, this moving target of this person in a deep, like, personal evolution.And I'm like, how do we brand that when she's, like, veering off course, right?And so having to kind of keep her on course and go, I get that you want to be like that, but where you are today and, like, how you're sharing your content on Instagram and, like, the way you're communicating, like, let's be that person, and let's just, like, celebrate and support who you are right now, because you're gonna be adding in these other tools and certifications and different things like that. I often work with coaches, so they are constantly adding new things to their toolkit. And I'm like, then we'll do a 2.0.When you get this certification in two years, then it can evolve a little bit too. So I think she was like, oh, how do I do this when I'm not at the certification point yet? But I still want to talk about some of it.And so sort of like, what can we give you permission for now? Like, who are you right now? You know, even it was like, goes into. I need new photos. Do you know, let's look at what you have. Are they fairly recent?Do you still look like you? Cool. Let's figure out a way to, like, take out the background so it makes it look more contemporary. Or let's do something to it so we don't have to.You don't have to, like, go to do a whole new brand shoot when you're not really ready to do that yet. So it was some of that.It was like, kind of reining in, because when people go to work on their website again, they start comparing themselves to other people. They're. They just start. It gets too big. And so I just kind of keep. Keep it, like, focused, Keep it on the branding, keep it on.Like, this is what we talked about. Remember, we said we were gonna message it this way. Like, you're going on too many directions. Like, let's.Let's rein this in, you know, and it was really good because, you know, she was like, yeah, then I can make subtle tweaks within that, like, oh, a little bit more purple or a little, like. It was just the little subtle fine tunings were the thing we could work on, but it wasn't like, keep moving so far back and forth.Like, maybe I need to whole page. Maybe I need. The sweeps were too big. It was because she was, like, confused where she was in her life.So I'm like, let's accept where you are right now and then build the website from that. And that was like, the permission she needed to not go. But I'm not this person yet that I want to be in three years when I get this certification.I was like, who are you now? What are you marketing now? You know?

Yeah. Hearing you speak, it really is two things. One, this is, like, always an evolving thing.And then two, I feel like if somebody is to work with you, it feels like you're in it with them for, like, the long haul or something.

I hope so. I mean, yeah, it's funny because sometimes you're like, yeah, I want to work with someone and I never talk to them again.And I'm like, no, I want to have a relationship with them ongoing. They might take it and, like, do it themselves at that point, because that's also what I do in the work that I do.I'm training people to sort of take ownership. So it's not like, oh, I'm your brand designer, you have to come back to me. It's like, I've earned you with this brand.And if you're comfortable with it, you can go in Canva and play with things or you can ask me questions here and there. You can, you know, I might even say like, hey, wow, this is kind of a new direction. What's going on there? Or, you know, that's a weird pink.That's like not the pink we talked about. And then they'll tell me why, oh, they didn't have that pink. Whatever. It is something they'll have.I'm like, oh, well, so you could just make sure you like, keep it cohesive as you're revolving. You know, I kind of will advise sometimes.But yeah, it's because it's an ever expanding journey that, yeah, it's something you're gonna have to revisit periodically.

Right. And even makes more sense to like, let's see what you have to work with now. Because that can get expensive. Like a brand shoot.Just because you decide you don't like something like, oh my gosh, I can't.

Tell you how many people have been like, well, my hair was one client, my hair was pink and now my hair is blonde. I have to change all my photos. I'm like, do you, do you like, you're still you just because you had pink hair?Like, unless you're so anti pink hair now. But people are going to see you some other posts on the Internet, they're going to go, oh, that girl had pink hair.Like, you can't really hide that necessarily. And so I think it's again, like, what's the best version of you right now? And we're going to put that forward.

You know, you know, you started, I remember like when we first met, we, we started with working with you through Malism. You were like all into minimalism. So you have these minimalist roots. Are you still like into minimalism?

Yeah, I think it's taken on a different form. My lifestyle has changed a little bit. I was traveling, I was a digital nomad. So yeah, it had had much more of a minimalist spin.But I kind of always apply it to what I'm doing with branding and websites too. So I'm more of the celebrate what you have and don't add things just to add things. Like the shelf behind me, for example, I've got this shelf, right?And it's like, okay, I start adding things and I start going, wait, am I adding things just to add Things like, am I trying to just fill space, or do I actually need and love that? Right. And I think that's the same with a website. It's the same with your life. It's like, do I actually need more?And then there's consumerism and capitalism. Like, one thing. All these things boycotts and bans are doing for us, they're having us examine our consumerism.Like, do I have to get that Amazon thing tomorrow? Or can I actually wait?Or is there something that's maybe a little more expensive, that's a better quality, where I'm not gonna have to keep replacing something, you know, that kind of thing? So sort of, I'm always applying that lens, like, to my life.

Yeah. I was gonna ask, like, how it helped in your own. In your creative business, because I know, like, it seems to.While I don't necessarily identify as, like, a minimalist, I do appreciate, like, you know, a clean space, like, having, like, a nice and neat area. What it really does for me, it doesn't necessarily always happen. And so, yeah, I was just wondering if you could speak to how that went to your.

Yeah, there's. I just. You know, I got this new computer a little while ago. I got an imac, and I was looking, and it comes in, like, a rainbow of colors.And I kept going, oh. You know, And I think of, like, people. You see a brand photo shoot, and they've got their rainbow computer, and everything's in the same color.Like, I mentioned the Stanley cup, whatever. It's all in the same color. And I'm like. Honestly, I'm working on other people's brand palettes and colors, not just my own.So I picked the silver computer because I want the most neutral screen to look at. If I've got a yellow computer, which is not my color, but if I had a yellow computer, I'd be. It would affect my design.It would, like, shape me, whatever I see in front of me. So I have, like, a wall behind this computer. There's nothing on the wall. I could put something on the wall, but it would distract me. Right.Even my backtop of my computer has to be black so that whatever I'm working on, like, it's just background. It's not, like, shouting at me.

Yeah.

In a layer, you know, So I think so. I'm very. What's in my visual field is really important to me. Where I'm working is really important to me.And, yeah, simplifying that, like, if there's. If there's clutter out, like, it's gonna keep my brain out.So I always even have to think about, is there something I need to check off before I go into my creative zone? Like, is there something that's more important that I need to do that's going to take me five minutes or something so I can really get in the zone?

Yeah.Do you, like, in your work with your clients, do you guys, like, have like a decluttering practice or any type of organizational thing before y' all work together?

You know, it's interesting that you say that because, yeah, I'm going to be adding some of that and kind of coming full circle. So. What in the minimalism thing, too. I did professional organizing for a while years ago. I. Yeah. And I kind of. That's my natural.My natural inclination is to be organized. I was organizing drawers as a kid, you know, Like, I love not only, like, sort of like Marie Kondo. I love mess.Like, I love making order to things, but I'm more, rather than making organization in order, I like making a space for something. So if there's no space for something, then we do need to declutter that. So sometimes. Yeah.So, yeah, there's like a piece that I've added more of a coaching type piece that I've added into the work that I do that's sort of. Okay. What are the outdated versions of you? What are the.Like, give me all your bios and pictures and things and we sort of declutter from there about, like, yeah, is that on brand now? Does that fit into what you want to share now? Does that fit into the vision?Is that just some outdated copy that you wrote in some course that you were in? That has nothing to do with the way we're messaging your business now? So I think people get.They get this regret of, like, I have to use everything that I know on my website. And it's not necessarily so we like, really pare that down to what are you really having them try to do when they go to your website? Or what are you.What is your brand really for? Like, what do you want them to feel? You know, and how do we declutter the stuff? That's not that.So they can really feel that way when they come to your website?

Yeah, I've been really, really into, like, fun, juicy websites, though. Like, they have like, all this stuff. Like, I feel like my website is. Is like just for folks. Like, get on there. You could see the work.How can I contact her? This is what she has about. And get off, you know, And I'm like, That's perfect. But. And, you know, I'm not.I'm not going to steer from that, but I think I'm just envious of, like, other folks who don't need that. Yeah.I don't know, because I feel like, you know, with artist sites, it seems now you can, like, do whatever you want, obviously, you know, But I don't know, it's just something to be said for, like, when they. They sort of fall into a certain cadence where, like, a curator or, like, producer can just go and look and get what they need and go.And not have to, like, fall into, like, a tunnel.

Yeah. Because it's. You know, I tell people, you have. They get to your website, you have to tell them how to use it.You don't want them to, like, if it's so minimal, it's like, I don't know where I'm supposed to click or what I'm supposed to do or what. You know, it's like someone just supposed to assume I should know where something is. Right. And that doesn't always work either.Like, it might look visually appealing to have it that simple, but it's like you have to have a button here. You have to have a word that tells them what to do.You have to make something a different color, that it stands out or something like that to know to, like, sign up for something. You still have to make it clear to people. When you like a site, you.You know, you've got an artist portfolio site that's very different because the work is the. You want the work to shine. So similar to when you go into a museum. Museums are boring until they see the art. Right.If you were to take the art out, it would be the most boring space ever. Right. But it's like, that's the point is that the art is lit, proper.It's got this little tiny, teeny sign, you know, like, that tells you a little bit about it, but you're really supposed to be in there and absorb it and experience it undistracted. Right.

You know, let's talk about how you even got into all of this. I mean, you started dancing. Well, you used to be a dancer and a choreographer.

Yes, yes.

I'm not gonna spend too much time on that. Cause that's not your life anymore. How do you go from that to now? You know, being able to help folks?Like, does your dance, your past dance, inform how you help folks? Like, maybe it's also choreography in a way. I don't know.

It's absolutely. I would say choreography. More than dance. Because, you know, growing up as a dancer, as a kid, like, I started choreographing when I was young.I started choreographing when I was, like, 13 years old. Won a competition, a nationwide competition, at 15, like, it was actually more. My favorite thing to do was choreographing. And I think.I think even at a young age, probably like 17 or so, I stopped being in the pieces I was choreographing. I had this whole theory. My whole theory was like, you can't really get perspective if you're in it.You're, like, worried about your own performance and your own ego and how do I look? And then you also can't stand outside and actually watch what's happening if you're in it. So.Because some people's theory is like, well, I'm the expert at knowing my choreography, so I'm going to put myself in there so that I can, you know, execute it the best. Right? So.

And you see that? You see, like, yeah, you see, like, these famous choreographers, like, right next to their. The artist or whatever.

Yeah. And so part of my theory was, like, I wanted to celebrate people's uniqueness as a ballet dancer.I was a classical ballet dancer, and so much of it was about looking like someone else. Like, that's part of the symmetry, the patterns, the. You have to be in unison, all these things.And then your bodies, of course, have to look the same, which is a whole problem. And so I started leaning more toward a contemporary direction. And that was, what are your unique skill sets?Like, what's a thing that never got highlighted because you're hiding in the back line that you're really good at that nobody gets to see? Like, let's have you do that one trick or that cool thing that you can do. You can bend your body this weird way.Like, let's put that into the choreography. Or you're, like, really funny. Let's put your personality into the choreography, you know?So I started making it about people's, like, unique gifts, unique abilities, and then giving them again, permission to put that forward. Right. And so my website branding career probably started out of a tragedy, as many good stories do, right.I got at, like, the peak of my dancing career. I was 21. I got in a car accident that was very severe. And so it was 30 years ago, last year, and. And it changed my life.But I stayed choreographing for a little while. It took me about three and a half years to get back to dancing. I got back to Dancing. I was like, I'm not the same person. I have changed so much.I had gone back to school. I was studying journalism, so I was getting into writing. I was getting into marketing. I was getting into.Part of the journalism school was crafting layouts for, like, newsletters and, you know, magazines and stuff like that. And I started really geeking out on that part. So that was kind of, in a way, like a little start that I didn't even know was starting.It was like, oh, here's something that I like, but I don't know what I'm gonna do with it. So I thought I was gonna go, right. I thought I was gonna be a newspaper person. That did not happen. I went back into theater.I did costumes and wardrobe. Cause that was a way, like. Cause my body was not physically capable.Even though I went back to dancing, I still had a lot of physical limitations from my car accident. So I was like, here's the thing I can do. I can still be involved in theater. I'm going to dress people for a living. This is great.I'm going to do laundry. I'm going to do all the back end of costumery. And as I was doing that, I was like, yeah, I don't want to be in this lifestyle anymore.I don't want to work production hours. I don't want to all of that.So it was like, all right, I need to find something that is my skill set, that I could have time, freedom, I could do anytime I want. And so it started. This idea just started forming and I started learning how to do websites. This was probably, God, like, 16 years ago, maybe.I started learning how to do websites. That led into branding and then bringing my writing back into it as an element. So I do writing as well also with it.So there's a very kind of circuitous journey to get here.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like now you have like a whole, like, now being in business for yourself.I imagine that you have, like, a lot of, like, freedom and flexibility, like, in your time and stuff.

I do. Especially when we were living in a travel trailer, it was great because I could work with clients anywhere. That lifestyle.We'd stay about a month in a place in a trailer. So, like, you'd have a road travel day where I couldn't work at all.And sometimes that would be a Monday, sometimes that would be a third day, you know. So to be able to craft my business in a very flexible way worked really well for me. And so now I'm in one place.I'm Back in the town that I grew up in. Um, and I keep reminding myself, yes, I still have freedom and flexibility. Like, we don't have to work Monday if we don't want to.Like, I have to, like, remind myself.

Oh, my gosh, what do you think is something that you've done that, like, maybe, like, 10 years ago, like, you would be shocked by, like, in your business?

Oh, my gosh. Hmm. That's a very good question. I pro. I don't think I'd be shocked. I mean, I'm about to start a podcast of my own, so I don't know if I'd be shocked.But that's always, like, coming back full circle. Like, wow, I get to. I'm gonna, like, interview people, and that's gonna be part of my business. And that's part of branding and part of.Cause I always, like, part of journalism, too, was I wanted to have a talk show. And like, oh, my gosh, it's gonna. That's gonna happen, you know, so it's sort of like these. It's the same thing. It's like.Like, I've created what I wanted. I get, you know, I'm not going and going. Someone give me permission and like, how do I do this? Can I do this? Sure, I can do this.I can learn how to do that.

I'm, like, learning that. Sort of like, the dream. Like, I love filmmaking, but it's just like, even as we're recording this, like, I'm getting ready to go on a project.So it's just, like, shifting everybody around, you know? And I remember I did this documentary on this hairstylist. It was like a celebrity stylist.It would be so crazy because when she ended up getting a call to work on a TV show in la, she had to shift all of her clients. She's like, oh, my gosh.Because she had had this, like, her own salon for a long time and was, like, doing a lot of, like, high profile, not high, like, high professional women. Like, a lot of, like, doctors or judges.Like, all these people who had to, like, make sure their hair was combed, you know, and so she, like, had to move all these people, like, to the end, and she would fly and then go back, fly and go back. And then after a while, you know, if she did that, she's just like, okay, which one do I like?Thankfully for her, the show that she ended up working on got canceled, and she just went back to working at the salon. And so she was glad that she did stop that, you know, and that thankfully all her clients, they were like, fine with shifting the schedule.But I'm just like, oh, man. Like, you know, the way that you've, like, built your business, you know, like all your career, and then like this lovely, like, minimalist roots.It's like, ooh, how could I have that? I like that. You know, as much as I love, like, film making, it is like, as, you know, like such long hours.And so it's like me trying to scoot everybody into that while I've had this time off. I'm just like, hmm, you know, what could it.

It is. There's something because. Yeah. Having a production life since I was a kid, in a way, you know, like, I had so many years of.Because people are like, oh, you know, I'm like, I didn't. I hardly had a 9 to 5 job. Like, I had one. I actually worked for a visual effects company as my 9 to 5 job.So I still worked in film, you know, but hours were traditional hours at that job. But I was in an environment where people weren't traditional with their hours, you know, So I think that was.That became part of it was I want to get to decide what my hours are, you know, that. That was like, important to me. And I didn't really realize that was important to me. I don't.And that gets tricky sometimes because you're like, oh, I could set my own hours. And you're like, wait, I have to do work. What happened? I forgot to do work today. Oops. It's suddenly 7pm and I didn't do what I said I was gonna do.You know, it' happens a lot. Procrastination is a real thing sometimes. It's part of the creative process, though, to procrastinate.But yeah, but yeah, I think that's just same with branding. Basically deciding what your lifestyle, you want your lifestyle to be, you know? Yeah, I think getting my.I wanted to get my lifestyle a certain way because I knew we wanted to travel and I didn't know we were going to go in an RV for a. For five years, but that was how that we decided to do that, you know, and so it was like my work fit into that. Yeah, I built.I wanted to build a life where I could travel. And so that's why I did the pick the way I did my work. Like, so I think it's knowing. Knowing the bigger picture, what you want.Like, I want a life where. You know what I mean, I get to go to.I have every Monday off or I want a Life where like when you come become clear about these things, then you kind of see what fits with that.

Yeah, yeah.I'm hoping that in like an ideal world that like I could do like say like two six month jobs or like maybe it's like two, three months, you know, something like that where they like quarter themselves off. But the problem with like, you just don't know when the films are gonna.

You just don't know.

You just don't know. So it's like you can't really.

And then there's a writer's drive and then there's a pandemic and then there's a hiatus and then there's a. I don't know what, the actress gets sick and they have to recast. Like I'm sure like they're, you know, all those like all my film, Film industry people that I know. Yeah.Struggle with, they predict and then suddenly they're like, oops, that changed.

Yes.

You know, so you have to.

Yeah, it's just like, okay. Just how to stay flexible. But it keeps you on your toes though, that's for sure. So. Uh huh.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was like reading in my research somewhere. You don't, you don't drive, but you love to walk everywhere. I love to walk. What has that done to like, okay, when you walk, do you have like a style?Do you have headphones? Do you not use headphones? Like how does that happen?

I don't usually use headphones because I'm aware of how crazy people are. And so I try to make sure I can hear everything. I'm also not like the city. I'm not in a city that's like a big, big city right now.So I think when there's less people around, sometimes in a way I gotta be more aware. Yeah. So you know, now I mean, I walk with my dog as many places as I can. I walk with my husband every morning. That's just like my exercise walk.But yeah, like I walk to go meet people for coffee, I walk to go do errands. I, you know, I have chosen to live in a neighborhood where I get to do that because I, I love walking. But.And when I lived in Los Angeles, I would walk places that like nobody would walk. I'd be crazy. I'd be like looking at myself like I am walking where nobody walks right now. This is nuts.And I would get to see all these really interesting things you take for granted when you're going by fast in a car. Especially in la, there's so much traffic. That you're so, like, focused on getting to where you're getting.You're not, like, enjoying the journey so much. And I could enjoy the journey more to go to places.

When I was walking, yeah, I got a new. I got a new iPhone. And so I'm not responsible enough to have AirPods.But it's been keeping me from walking because I'm like, I don't have my headphones. And then I'm like, stephanie, you can just go without your headphones. And I'm like, no. But now that that's your style, maybe I'll give it a shot.

Well, there's something about, like, I can't remember what it's called, but I saw something the other day that was like, staying present. It was a book. I will remember it. It will come up in my brain.But it was basically that, like, it gets easy to get, like, just on what's in your ears, you know, like, you're listening to a phone call, you're listening to a podcast. Instead of, what if I'm like, oh, there's bird sounds, what's that? Or, ooh, I hear a train.Or you start to kind of hone in on these different things in environment.

Yeah, yeah. Depending on how. When you start your podcast, how you end up editing it. That's always a good excuse.When you, like, when I'm gonna listen better of our conversation, I get it to, like, where I want it to be, and then I'll go for a walk and listen to it really nice so then I can sort of, like, hear. And then I'm like, outside. Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

But community is like another big piece of your work. And so I would love to just hear, like, how that ties in, because that's another, like, Instagram word, you know, Community.Everybody has a community. Community.

I feel like the way community gets used a lot of times, especially on Instagram, where it's like, my community, like, my people, like these. They're here just for me. And I'm like, no, that's not at all. Like, I've.I have facilitated and been a part of creating community in lots of different ways. I used to moderate several different online commun. I did sort of the vetting to get people into the community. That was like, not a business thing.That was, like a friend thing. And then over time, I think the way I build community is, like, I'm nothing without these people. Like, these people are. Are giving me everything.And I'm just, like, holding space a la wicked. I'm holding space for them. To connect and be together. And that's. I love doing that.And I just recently started doing that in my life again last summer when I. I started a writing community.

Yes, Write Shit Mondays.

Write Shit Mondays.

Yes, I have it. It is in my calendar every Monday, even if I can't make it on Monday. I, like, know you guys are going, you know. Yep.

Yeah, it was great. Cause it was the holiday this. This week, and it was very small and people. Somebody asked me in advance, are we still having it?I'm like, always like, you'll know if we're not. It's more like that, you know? And it was great that it was a little small group in a way. Like, we. I structured it based on who was there.So, yeah, that's what I like doing.

What made you start Write Shit Mondays anyway?

So Write Shit Mondays started out of. It was not my original idea. It was my husband's name. It was Right Shit Thursdays.So when we lived in la, we were both writing, we were both publishing to getting. I was getting paid to write for some blogs. He was writing for a blog.And we decided we'd go to a coffee shop because it was like, if you're there, you're not gonna stay there long. You're gonna drink a coffee or two and you're gonna get out and there's like other people around you.Especially in la, it was like all these creatives. So I was like, oh, there's the next great script being written right next to me or the next novel or whatever.Like, you could just feel the creative energy of other people being around you. So that's why it was good to go somewhere else instead of just, let's write together, let's set what you know. So we did that.And so I asked him, I was like, can I wanna do this thing online? He's like, great, go for it. Like, he's not really writing right now and that's fine. And so he's like. So I'm like, can I call it the same thing?He's like, sure. So, right. Shit Monday is because it's sort of like this to kick off the week for everyone.A lot of people are, like, slow to start and, like, need to get going.And so, right, Shit Mondays is a place where you can come, you can write, we connect, we get grounded, we get in the zone, we sort of shake our bodies out and get focused. I have a little, like, writing prompt that sometimes I think of, like two minutes before the call. Sometimes I think of, like, on the call.I really try to make it relevant to what's happening right now.

Yeah.

So I don't craft them in advance.And once we do that writing prompt, and then I ask people if there's something they want to be held accountable for for the session, because I think body doubling, saying it out loud, then I can check back in with them. I like, caution people against being overzealous. They're like, give me a laundry list of 20 things they're going to do. I'm like, really?You're going to do that all in this session? Like, just like, let's play a game. Like, what do you want to do in this one hour?But they actually get, like, about 35 minutes of CO writing, silent writing with a playlist. And so we write together and people get all kinds of things done.And there's people that were, like, not writing a book that are now, like, ready to send a book to an editor. There's people that are, you know, writing fiction, and they never really give themselves permission to write fiction. Like, it's just marketing copy.Like, anything from personal writing to business writing. It's just really cool to be in the space of other people. And I did it because I wasn't writing enough. And so I was like, I need to make a space.I think that's the other thing about facilitating a space is it does need to be something that feeds you and what you need. And then also I get to give this space to other people.

Yes. Like, I think it's great that you offer that right before you. There is. I don't know if she did it.And it could even maybe be something that you do, like, with your. The, like decluttering. But she had, like, house chores woman that did, like, a co working for house chores. Like, it would be an.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah. So we would meet and, like, talk about what we would do. But, like, I would like. Cause like, Monday's like, garbage day.I would go pull out the garbage, like, load the dishwasher, fold laundry. Then like, somebody else was always doing something, and I'm like, this is just so. This is just so ridiculous, you know?But I would get so much done, and then. Then it's time to come to the right shit. Fun days, you know? And I'm like, like, whoa, my Monday has been so productive.

Yeah. Sometimes you do you need other people. That is a permission. Like, other people doing it gives you permission to do it.I've had people, like, someone did something that wasn't writing in there the other day, and I Was like, all right. But it's like, my goal is that we're all writing because I think it's like, we have.We've all decided we want to write something, whether it's marketing content or a book or whatever. And so we want to geek out on writing is kind of of the goal.And so because we kind of talk about it a little bit at the end, I check in on how people's writing went, and then. And then I'm going to say things that are sort of writing, slash, branding specific. I'm going to advise and guide a little bit with people as well.

Yeah, I think it's great. So, like, listener, you should come, because we'll be there. We're there every Monday, rain or shine.

Yes, we definitely.

Well, really quick. Right back to branding. What do you think is, like, a thing that's happening in branding right now that is, like, really trash?

That is really trash. Oh, gosh. I think it's the thing I was talking about, really, because of this. The AI piece that can't be ignored of this is the.Let's make things look homogenized. Like, I had a client, and then she.She had wonderful headshots done, and then she did AI versions of the headshots, too, and they looked like a whole different person. And I'm like, why do you think you're not supposed to look like. And it was. The insecurity was around age. She was like, I feel like I look old.So these AI versions make me look more approachable and younger. And I'm like, but people. The way that she worked with people is by video. They're gonna see her every time, and they're gonna go, what?You are not the same person from this weird AI photo shoot that looks like you're in Paris when you live in, like, the South. And like. Yeah, it's so, like. Because it. It. It comes up with things that. That aren't authentic to them.

Yes.

And I don't like that. And I don't. Because it's, like, it's not. People think that makes it easy. Like, oh, here's a tool to make posting things or creating content easier.And I'm like, how about be more you instead of, like, trying to be like somebody else all the time.

Yeah. That's so real. I know. I had, like, another, like, podcast friend wanted to take pictures of themselves or.No, they wanted to make their photos look more spring. And so they were trying to, like, do all this AI stuff. And I'm like, why don't you Just go outside and take a picture.

Just go outside.

Like, it doesn't have to be, like, all perfect, but, like, you can, like, put your camera phone, like, up against something and, like, run out and take a picture of you. Like, like on a walking path, right? Like, you're over complicated.

It is. It's. I think that's what it is. It's. People overcomplicate it.They think AI makes it simpler, but it actually makes it just look like something else that doesn't go, yeah. And that drives me crazy.

Yeah, it just. Ooh. Another branding question I have. So, like, if we like our colors, you know, you have to have your branding colors. What if you get sick of them?Can you just change them? Or you really. Is that, like, really against branding rules, tools?

I change mine all the time.

Okay. Okay.

People, like, I. I used to get the advice. They're like, don't change anything for six months. And you're like, what if I change it every three months?To me, it's part of, like, my business is slow. Something's happening. If I.It's kind of like buying like a new necklace or new, like, yeah, you know, whatever piece of clothing where you're like, oh, I look good. Like, it's like you put a new color on there. You're like, yes, I want to share this now. I just changed this one color.Like, my button pop color is turquoise instead of purple or whatever. And it just. Whatever it is, I don't care. Like, whatever gets you sharing and feeling confident, it doesn't matter to me.Like, I think as long as you're still saying within the brand in a way like that brands can be flexible. Like, if you go, like, way different on color palette, you know, you might want to say why. You know, it might. Because you're also.You're trying to maybe attract a different audience than you started out with.So, for example, I don't know why this always comes up, but people are like, they want to work with moms or something, and suddenly along the way, they realize, like, oh, wow, I want to work with, like, women or, you know, people who identify as women or who, whatever, they. They shift it a little bit, you know, to like, accommodate that look.Because it's like, oh, if this looks like I've just got pictures of my kids everywhere, and I'm so mom centric, that might turn people off in this new audience.So I think that's another part of it is, like, if your audience starts to shift or who you want to work with starts to shift, you need to shift your branding.

Okay. But you don't have to. You know, you'll see people sometimes on Instagram, like, I got a rebrand coming up, and it's like, just change the colors.Right?

Just. Just change the color. I think. Yeah, there's. I mean, a whole rebrand is definitely, like, a whole revisioning of, like, your whole business and.And that kind of thing. And then that's where you have to assess, like, wow, are you doing a whole different kind of business now or have you just pivoted?If you've just pivoted a little bit, great. Like, add a new color in. You're still. You. You're still.Still going to be identifiable, but it's just like, oh, this hot pink color might speak to my audience more than the blue did, or something. Trying to look less corporate or something like that.

Can you ever just change it just because you're bored with, like, looking at it yourself? Like, I change my profile photos a lot, but kind of like, just tired of looking at myself.

Like, well, that's. I think, yeah, people get. What is the word I'm looking for? They get, like, scared to pick.Pick the brand colors because they're like, what if I'm gonna change them? So we give kind of like. I give, like, a palette and a mood board and a. And a suggestion like, keep the foundation.Does this color pivot off that foundation? Right. Like, yes. Or did you just see that? Was that Brat?Green's a great example, but, like, something, you know, like, that's out there that you're like, I don't know, do I want to just incorporate some trendy color? Well, if the trendy color has nothing to do with your brand, then why, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. What do you think? Okay. For the listener, what do you think is one thing that they could do right now besides come join us on.Right. Shit Mondays? Towards their brand. Towards their brand.

Yeah, towards their brand. I think it's, you know, really being straight with themselves about who they are, because that's what's underneath your brand.Brand, like, what's important to you. If you're not growing a business or growing how you're sharing yourself from what you really need.So I think step one is, like, get clear about what you really need in your life. Get clear about what you really want in your life, and then you build the brand from there. You don't just go, oh, what marketable skills do I have?How do I. Because then you just get into, like, hustle culture. You get into marketing away. That's not really you. Doesn't really match what you need.So I think taking the time to just get clear about like, what do I want my life to actually look like?

Like, okay, yeah, that's really good advice.

Because like, I like, I like working one on one. I like collaborating with people deeply. Like, I dig deep on my branding stuff.If I were to do that in a group, it'd be a little more shallow and it wouldn't just would not my jam, you know?

Yeah, yeah.Like the small group type things don't always work because then it's like maybe everybody doesn't always get a chance to speak or people might get scared. But like working one on one and.

There'S the introverts and the extroverts will take over the group, which always happens.

Yes. I was just in a group meeting like that and an extrovert was just taken over and I'm like, dang, lady, let somebody else speak.

I hate that. Which is then why you need someone facilitating that conversation. Somebody has to be. I mean, I am good at facilitating conversations like that.

Yeah.

And that's why I like to lead groups. But yeah, I think when it comes to branding work, it's very like private. Personal.

It is private. Yeah.

I mean, I say I'm like a website therapist because I do. I like to dig and, and really figure out the, the juicy underbelly. People's brands.

Yeah, that's really good.

Yeah.

Well, hey, listen, if folks want to work with you, what should they do as we wind up?

They should go onto my website. They can start. I mean, they can sign up for Write Ship Mondays because that gets them on my list. And then I kind of talk about everything I do.So it's not just the writing piece, it's not just the prom that they get, but it's also like the ways to work with me and things like that. So I think that's probably the best way. Signing up for my. My newsletter.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for talking with us. I think this has been really fun, really eye opening. It's nice to feel like.I feel like this whole like branding putting ourselves out there is very intimidating. And it's nice to hear, you know, conversations like this one that sort of like, like, keep it easy, you know, and keep it flexible.

You know, keep it easy and keep it flexible like that. Those are going to be my new themes for the week.

Awesome.

Yes.

I love it. Well, thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.

This has been another episode of Mozy af. I'm your host, Stephanie Graham. What did you think about today's conversation? I would love to hear your thoughts.Head over to the new CF website for all the show notes related to this episode. You can also find me on Instagram at Stephanie Graham, what would you know?Or online@missgram.com where you can sign up for my newsletter where I share exclusive updates about my studio practice as well as this podcast. Until next time, y' all stay curious and take care. Bye La.