Print Your Legacy: Lawrence Nalls on Multi-Generational Photography and Pride

Hey, nosey friends. This conversation was recorded live on Saturday, December 27, 2025 at Lumpen Radio.

Gotta get up, get up to the.

Whole world, you a winner, winner Vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you doing, how you doing, what you're doing and who you are. Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself, don't wreck your. If you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up.Hey, Stephanie Graham is nosey as WLPNLP Chicago 105.5 FM Lumpin radio. Hello Chicago, welcome to 2 o'.

Clock.

I am very excited to be here. Happy holidays. What a dream you all. Today we have a special guest, a new neighbor to Bridgeport here.My guest today is Lawrence Nals, managing photographer of Forty photography, a multi generational Chicago based photography studio. Rooted in history, family and service.What began over 50 years ago as one man documenting his life experiences has grown into a trusted creative business serving families, schools and organizations across the city. Lawrence's work is grounded in storytelling legacy and the belief that photography is both an art form and research responsibility.He's also a devoted father, husband and community minded creative leader. Lawrence Knowles, welcome.

Hello. Hello. Thank you.

Yes. I'm so excited that you're here. Happy holidays to you.

Happy holidays to you as well.

You know, curious for people who are meeting you for the first time, which could be our listener.

Hi listener.

Yes, hi. How do you describe Forty photography?

How did I describe 40 photography? We are, as you said, we're rooted in storytelling.We are individuals who are very good at immersing ourselves in whatever's going on and really using the lens to kind of tell the story of what we see.I believe, my dad believes as well that we always hear this thing, picture's worth a thousand words and it is, but it should also be worth some feelings. So when we're looking through the lens and we're shooting, I think on the other side I want people to be able to feel like they were there.So emotive is what I would say. To answer your question.

Yeah, that's really nice that they will feel like they are there. That's really nice too. Especially like with schools and stuff.Like, you know, like if family members aren't at the school, they can see their children doing things, think, oh look, I'm actually there.

Yeah, see their kids sneezing on us while we shoot them.

Does that happen a lot?

Depends on the age of the kids. If we're at K through 8, you better believe it. There's a Runny nose somewhere.

Do you keep, like, Kleenex in your bag?

Kleenex sanitizing wipes, sanitizing spray and Lysol.

Wow.

Okay. Covid alumni.

Yes. That's a really great idea. I should keep those things.

Yes, you should. I'm looking around here like, okay, where's the. Where's the wipes and stuff? Oh, we got knobs and switches.

Oh, I know, right? When did photography stopped being, you know, just something you did and started feeling like a responsibility?

The short answer to that is the moment somebody hands you a check.

Okay.

You know, or the moment someone contracts you to document something that's really important to them. So it's like, hey, okay. You know, we gotta really deliver. But, yeah, when you start, you know, shooting for money, it becomes a responsibility.Doesn't always have to feel that way. You know, it just depends on how you approach the work. That's why the older I get, the pickier and choosier I become with work.And, you know, sometimes it could be to your detriment. But, you know, all money isn't necessarily good money. I have to be just a little bit excited about what we're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just can't take a job for money. We're just not gonna do it.

I'm sorry this happened to me. When it came to weddings. I did not like weddings. And I remember one time, this specific wedding, I was working as, like, the second shooter.The second photographer.

Yeah.

And I had been out the night before. Like, I was out really late.

Like out. Like, socially.

Yeah, socially out. Yeah. Hanging out. You know, I was like, out hanging out until like, two in the morning, you know.And I had to be on set at like, seven to help out for this wedding. And, you know, I'm there and I'm like, you know what, Stephanie? These people are getting married, you know, and you're just out kicking it.You know, this is serious. Like. And you're, like, tired and yawning and stuff. And I got the footage that I needed, but I'm like, this is a big deal.Like, people are paying, you know, the main photographer a lot of money. And. Yeah. So I'm like, maybe I shouldn't do weddings. Cause I'm not taking it seriously. I'm just partying the night before. It's not a good look.So I. I don't know why I went to weddings, but Shout out to the wedding photographers. Because.

Yeah, shout out to them.

Are you a wedding photographer?

Not anymore. I've done maybe a handful of weddings in past Five years. And they were always from close friends or relatives.I don't even advertise in the wedding space anymore. It's just, it's a lot. If you're gonna do weddings, I think that's, you know, for me, in my opinion, all that you can do.So you can, you know, really jump into it. Cause it's a commitment.

Yeah, I love them. I really respect wedding photographers. When people are like, oh my God, they want like five grand, they want ten grand. I'm like, yeah, and pay it.You need to pay it because they're gonna really work for you. Yep. You know, 40 photography has a multi generational story. What parts of that legacy matters most to you right now? Your father was a photographer?

Yeah, yeah, he still shoots. He'll be 80 next month. Oh, yeah, he still shoots, you know, just kind of as a hobby.But this thing all started back in the 60s, you know, not necessarily the whole 40 thing. Cause that's a story behind that. And I'll tell you. But my dad was in the Vietnam War, okay.And I don't know what his thing was with photography, but some kind of way in between shooting that M16, he had a 35 millimeter camera.

Okay.

So he has, I mean, goo gobs of footage from the Vietnam War.

Oh, really?

I mean, out in the jungle, you know, I mean, the stuff, the real deal. So that was a passion of his.You know, when he came home, that didn't stop, you know, even with the injuries, you know, he was wounded, Vietnam, Purple Heart, you know, almost died, that kind of thing. And that's where the name 40 comes from.When he came home in the late 60s, before I was born, doctors told him, man, you'll be lucky with the injuries. You have to live to be 40 years old, you know. And as I said, yeah, he'll be 80 next month. So he's still here. Yeah.

What a blessing.

Yeah, clearly he made it. Cause I wasn't born till 1970. So he came home from war in 68, I think. But yeah, we're here.So where I came into that was, let's see, I think it was about 1986 or 87, when he gave me my first camera, like real camera where you can take the lens off. You had to load it with film. Prior to that was. Remember the little Kodak Instamatics thing?Made the little click, click, click noise when you advance? That was my thing. But yeah, he bought a new camera and gave me his old one, A whole bag camera, a couple lenses and said, hey.I said, well, what I do. Figure it out. Oh, that was it. Figure it out. So I did, clearly. Obviously. So I was on the yearbook staff in high school.

Okay.

Did yearbook staff in college.

Okay. They had college yearbooks?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Neat. Yeah.

You're telling on yourself now.

Yeah, I really am.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. How embarrassing.

I have a lot of footage from college. Yes. Yes. First time I've photographed a celebrity was in college. Oh, Vesta. Well, she's shortened her name to just Vesta, but it was Vesta Williams.Then she came in and did the homecoming concert. And we got to, you know, do the pre production with her, shoot the shots for the yearbook. Shoot the concert. It was great.

Oh, yeah. That sounds awesome.

Yeah, I think that was 90, 92.

What is it about parents just telling us to figure stuff out? Like, if he was a photographer, why not show you how to take a picture and put the lens on the camera and stuff?

Well, he did show me how to load the film because he was buying it back then, so he didn't want me to waste any.

Yeah, seriously.

And push the shutter. Other than that, settings, lighting, composition. I would assume his philosophy, because I share it, is to go make some mistakes.Go make some mistakes. That's how you learn.I mean, he could explain to me XYZ a hundred times, but until you know, why something is or why you shouldn't do it this way, I think that's where the real learning happens, you know? And I'm just. I'm a big fan of stumbling forward and figuring it out. I messed up a bunch of pictures.

You know what I mean?

I mean, hey, I done messed up a bunch of pictures. But that's how you learn. Yeah, that's how you learn. So I don't mind the figure it out thing at all. At all. It's philosophy I use with my sons.I ain't figure it out.

Yeah. You know, back to this wedding stuff. I messed up a wedding once before. Oh, yeah. But you know what? I mean, looking back, I wasn't being paid.It's like, guys, I was learning. You get what you pay for. Isn't that terrible to say? But they said some of the pictures.

Came out, then they're ahead, they didn't pay. And you guys something usable then, you know?

Yes. They said some of them came out and I never saw them because I used film. And then I gave them.They had a hookup, I guess, like a coupon to like, get film developed. And I just gave them the rolls and then sold them.

I never knew you shot Film before what?

Oh my God. Of course. I'm a medium format person, but.

Oh, oh, yeah, I know, all right.

But I really want to try. Have you ever used large format, like a view camera or anything? Yeah, I'm really interested in that. We did it in school, but I didn't really.Maybe because the film was really expensive and I'm like, you know what? Maybe no, like 4x5. I just couldn't really afford it. But I have some friends that I've met recently that's been using 4x5 again.I'm like, oh, this is so beautiful. I want to shoot 4 by 5 film. You know them big old transparencies.

I bet the detail is just immaculate. Yeah, immaculate.

So I was going to ask, like, what do you think, like your father, you know, the generation before you was taught about your work that still guides you today. Be intentional, okay? Be intentional.

Yeah, don't shoot just to shoot, you know, and here's the thing, and this is. I can't remember how long digital's been around, but it took me a while to switch to it.Matter of fact, let's see, my oldest son is 20, so I don't think I got my first digital camera until 20 years ago. Prior to that, I was still shooting film. And I think that's kind of the issue or really the challenge with this generation of photographers.They're so skilled at post production and Photoshop, they have all these digital tools, so it decreases the need to be really on point or intentional about what you're doing before you push the button. Because they can always go, oh, I'll fix it in post, I'll fix it in Photoshop. And it's some unbelievable tools out there to do that kind of stuff.But I think that's the difference. And here I am 55, but I was brought into photography in one area and now here I live in a totally different era.So that was an adjustment for me and fortunately it's one that I haven't really given into. I'm still gonna do my work on the front end to avoid this whole world of post production on the back end.Yeah, we'll still retouch and that kind of stuff because those are oftentimes personal requests. You know, people want, you know, look a certain way polished and I get that.But my end, the lighting, the composition, the exposure, the feeling, I'm doing that on the front end.

Yeah, yeah, that makes the most sense. I was just scouring the Reddit, you know, the show, the social network Reddit.

Yeah.

Heard of they have the color. A color grading group. And I'm always seeing kids in there, like doing all this different color grading to their images and doing all this stuff.It's just amazing. And I'm always like, wow. I would just pick to go out at a certain time, like figure out when the sun might turn, you know, then go out.But they're just doing it whenever. The back end. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my gosh, can you guys teach me? I just think it is interesting.

Yeah. It's another level of skill set. It really is.

Yeah.

Really. I'm not mad at them, but it's a different approach to the work. Really is.

Yeah. I learned the same way as you two about getting it all right in the front end. And then you don't really have to worry too much about the back end.But the back end is very interesting. All these programs and stuff. I'm like, wow.

Back end is a whole nother career now.

It definitely is. Yeah, man. When I was in film school, colorists were making bank. Bank. So I don't.I'd be curious actually if colorist can still makes the same amount of money. Cause now it seems like, you know, anybody can do this stuff. But yeah, maybe.I'm sure they still make bank because you have to be a master at this stuff, you know.

And I'm sure many of them.Well, not all, but many have kind of double dipped, transitioned into the digital world and explored the color grading thing like you were talking about.

Yeah. You know, you photograph like families and schools and stuff like that.You know, what's like the most important thing like that families should think about when choosing to document their family. You know, I think professionally too.I mean, everybody has these iPhones, but you know, going to, you know, a professional, you know, like, what should that practice look like?

Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question.

Oh.

Cause it's actually a recent shift just in my whole approach to family portraits. I think families must first determine how they're gonna use these images.

Okay.

Are they gonna live in your iPhone forever and share em on social media?

Mm.

You know, they're gonna be your screensaver. Or are you printing a 16 by 20 in canvas or luster or matte and framing it and going in the living room. Yeah, that.That's where I would start my preference, my favorite now is working with families who are putting things on the wall.

Okay.

You know, and that's kind of how we. We start our session. If matter of fact, I don't do all digital Sessions with families. Let's talk about prints.Let's talk about where this is going in the house. What color are the walls? You know, what does it feel like? Where do you see this going? What's going in the living room? What's going in the bedroom?Dining room. That's how I approach it as a photographer. So I think that's where families should start. You know, what are we gonna do with these?Are we taking them just to take them? You know, is this going up on grandma's wall or is it just Facebook?

Did something happen where you, like, notice that your clients were not printing the photos?

Or actually just the opposite happened?I would visit people and, you know, not having had conversations, anything, and just walking into houses and seeing things that I took up on the wall.

Oh, okay.

And how much pride they had in those images and what it meant to them. And it happened. I mean, it's over a period of years. I said, you know, I like this. Yeah. The social media stuff is cool.And they tag you, and a lot of times they don't. We talking about y'.

All.

Y' all be talking about y' all tag your photographer. But going in someone's house and seeing something on the wall that you created with them, and now they have that memory forever. That.That's important to me. That's really, really important.

Yeah, I guess you're right. That is really nice.

Yeah. Yeah. That's where I live. That's the space I live. That's how I grew up. It's kind of house I grew up in.I still have all my mother and all my grandmother's photo albums and all the pictures that they had on the wall.

You know, the bank used to offer free photos, and my grandparents would go and get a free portrait at the bank.

Never heard of that.

Yeah, it was really nice, and it was really well done. They would get dressed up, and you just book a session and you go get a portrait. And it was free. It was free? Yes, it was free. It wasn't like.It wasn't like, one of, like, the big banks, like a chase or whatever. I can't remember who they banked with, but it was like a local bank, really? And they went every year. Yeah. And I have those photos.

I have never heard that.

Isn't that such a nice touch? You had to be a client, of course.

Yeah. I wonder what the fees were at that bank. Wow.

I don't know.

Yeah, they had to pay for that somehow. Nice touch.

Either way. You know what?Maybe it was like, I never Thought about that maybe it was like a banker's husband or wife or something that just did it trying to get practice. But they would always be beautiful.

Maybe so.

And I'm always like, wow, grandma, you got. They would do a couple photo and then one by herself and then one by himself. My grandpa. Isn't that nice?

That's really nice. That's a nice touch.

Yeah. But it made me think, like, okay, so with your photography, what do you hope people feel when they see your images?

Well, if I had to say something universally that fits kind of all lines of photos, I would say a sense of pride.

Yes.

Sense of pride. Yep. That's how it sum it up. That's what I want you to feel when you look at yourself after we've done this and done this in a sense of pride.

I love that so much. I know. Like the CAP Chicago alliance to African American photographers. That's what they were always. That's what they're all about.Just like sense of pride. Documenting black folks doing everyday things so that we can just look back at them and see, look at us doing these great things.Even if it's just us sitting in the park. It's so great. Yes. Being human.

Being human, yeah.

Do you do a lot of documentary type work?

Not a lot, but a little bit. Most recent thing I did, I was just sitting at Rainbow Beach. That's one of my happy places. That's where I grew up. And I think, was I smoking a cigar?I might have been smoking a cigar. You never know. Nice summer day. But I noticed a. A dad come in. Young father with his little big son.Inquisitive little fella, man, just vibrant little personality, bubbling, asking all the questions in the world. And I watched him go down to the beach. I was still maybe 30, 40 yards away. And he built a little sandcastle.I couldn't remember the last time I'd seen a kid do that.And he just had so much joy that I ran to the car and grabbed my camera and introduced myself to the dad and asked him, could I photograph his son in his little sandcastle?

Aw.

And I did. Yep. So shouts out to Samuel Hilliard iii. That was his name.

I wonder, did they print the photos?

That's a good question. Cause I sure sent it to them. Yeah, yeah, I know. They did make their way on social media. Um, I hope we printed it. It was a great shot.It was a great little father son moment.

That is really sweet. Like, how do you even earn trust with people during some of these, like, important moments? You Know.

Mm hmm. That's layered there, Stephanie. That's really layered. Well, it kind of depends on the situation in that particular instance.I just introduced myself, you know, told him why or what, brought, you know, what caught my eye. The two of them shook his hand, smile, asked for permission.So, you know, based on the setting, in other settings, somebody's calling you, it's usually the trust of someone else.

Sure.

You know, somebody refers you, hey, I'm looking for a photographer. I want to redo my branding. So it's trust of others, it's recommendation, it's, it's word of mouth, it's credibility.You know, it's, you know, a track record, a history of, you know, doing right by people.

Yeah.

So that's kind of, you know, it's kind of been my thing.

Has, like. Has photography taught you anything about people that surprised you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has.

You sound so disappointed.

You know, people and I know it's probably not surprising to somebody, but people are way more self conscious than I ever could imagine, you know, and sometimes, you know, in many cases, the more quote unquote attractive the person, the more kind of concerns of things that there are. And I just, it really blew my mind.I said, you know, because when you think about it and the reason it's, it's such an interesting phenomena, I'll say, is that most of the things that people are concerned about or self conscious about when being photographs, those comments, those concerns, only exists between their ears. You know, a lot of what people point out to me, it's like, yes. I don't even see that.

Yeah.

You know, you concerned about what. That exists no place outside of your conscious mind in between your ears. And it really.That one, that there, that always blows my mind, it's like, wow, you know, we only see or we seem to look through things through our own insecurities. It is really something.

Yeah. We're our own biggest critic.

Yes, yes, that is. That's the truth. Yeah, that's the truth.

Aw, that's so sad. How do you bring them out of that?

I'm an encourager.

Okay.

You know, I am an encourager. So we talk through it as one thing. When you come into the studio, we're working together, we don't do self put downs, we don't do body shamming.You know, I don't care what you said to yourself or you came in here, what you were doing at home in the mirror. I'm not gonna participate in that.

Yeah.

I'm simply not gonna do it. So. Yeah. I don't. It's just I don't give a space to breathe.

Yeah.

You know, I can deal with some legitimate things, but, you know, just that kind of off the wall. Well. Ah, no, let's stop that. Yeah, yeah, let's stop that. Let's get to work. You know, let's be bold. Let's be confident. So we start with words.You know, we make a little list, you know.

Oh.

Oh, yeah. If you, you know, in a perfect world. And when we get done with these pictures, what do you want to come across?What's your unspoken message to the world? And we write those words down, and we let those guide us through the shoot.So you can keep some other kind of defining mantras, so to speak, on your mind while we work.

I really like that approach because then you really don't have time to think about, like, oh, look at me, my face is broken out.

Exactly.

You're like, no, no, no. I'm supposed to be, like, you know, an attorney here. You know, like real estate attorney.So I need to be powerful and confident, and it just sort of gives you something else to focus on.

Exactly, Exactly.

I love that approach.

Exactly. Trade secret.

Okay. Do you have any other trade secrets.

Before we go to break? No.

Okay.

No, I think that's all I have right now. Put the pen down. What you writing on?

I know, right? I love a trade secret. It's my favorite thing. I love collecting secrets on such a good thing.Okay, so you build this word bank before we make our pictures. And how do you build something? You've been making pictures for how long?

Professionally? 19 years.

Okay. Ooh. Do you throw parties for your anniversaries?

We're having a 20th anniversary one next year. You best believe that August 2026 is coming.

Okay. And you're new to Bridgeport, too?

Yeah.

Yeah. So how long have you been in Bridgeport?

Well, let's see. This is December 25th, right?

Mm.

We had our opening brunch a year ago, December 24th, and we moved into the studio technically about eight months prior to that. So April 24th. So, yeah, we're coming up on two years. Been 18 months.

Wow.

About a year. Fully operational, though.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

Thank you. It's been great.

Yeah.

Love the food.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, food is yummy, I think. Let's see here. We have two minutes before we go to break. You said, like, enthusiasm is everything.I read this somewhere.

It absolutely is everything.

Yeah. How do you keep that alive? How do you keep enthusiasm? It's been such a dark year.

It has.

Let me speak about myself.

It is.

That's what I expected.

It's been a tough year.It's been a tough year for a lot of us, I think on multi fronts too, you know, but something from my childhood has always just kind of kept me through it. Every day when I wake up, I identify one thing, one thing to be absolutely excited about.And for some strange reason, when you put that laser focus on one thing, it kind of spills over into a lot of things. But every day, I have at least one thing to look forward to. You know, I don't care how big or how small it is. One thing.And it started when I was a little kid. My mom would come home from work, and every day she would bring me a gift. And I mean every day.

Wow. I love it.

And not, you know, and we're not talking about elaborate things. It might have been a piece of bubble gum from the concession stand before she got on the train. Come south from downtown. Could have been a comic book.It could have been a baseball card, football card, one of those little football helmets you might not remember. You put a quarter in the machine.

Oh, okay.

And, like, bubblegum machine.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was always something, you know, and she didn't miss a day when I was a little kid. And that just kind of. That kind of grew from there. Every day I would figure out a way to find something. Something to look forward to, something.

I love that. A daily present.

Mm.

Well, y', all, we are gonna take a quick break with Lawrence, and we'll be right back after this break.

Rick, y', all.

Real talk. How many opportunities have you bookmarked and never applied to? I know I have. And you know what? It happens.The admin part of the work we're doing is understandably boring and tedious, but when you neglect it, it can cost you real opportunities. That's why I created Artist Admin Hour, because. Because behind every exhibition is a clear budget submitted. That makes sense. Admin is the flex.It's the work that makes the work work. But you don't have to do it alone. Every Wednesday, 7 to 9pm Central, artists show up on Zoom to tackle what we've been avoiding.Residency applications, grant apps, budgets, invoices, whatever's on your list. Two hours of body doubling with structured. No shame. In real community, 25 to 45amonth gets you in.But if that's not doable, email me, because getting this done is very important. We will make it work. Stop letting admins sabotage your practice. Join us today at artist admin hour.com. WLPNLP Chicago, 105.5 FM Lumpin radio.We are back. We've been here with Lawrence Nalls chatting it up. Thank you for being here, Lawrence.

You're welcome. Thank you. We're back.

You know, I do have a question about cigars.

Oh, okay. I have an answer.

Why do people carry around these, like, big coolers with cigars? I feel like the folks I see, they have these big coolers and it's like, is it that serious? Like we're in a park.

So. So, yeah, I have a. I have an opinion about that. Okay, so when you say coolers, are you talking about beverage coolers on wheels with handles?

No, they're like, for their cigars.

Oh, the airtight cases.

Okay, that's what it is.

The airtight case Kind of look like a little camera case or a little light case.

Yeah. Or maybe just like, if it was gonna be like a six can cooler. But it's all stuff for cigars.

Okay.

And I'm like, all right, sir, is it that serious?

Well, the short version is yes, Stephanie, that's called a portable humidor.

Okay.

And to maximize your smoking experience, we need to regulate the temperature and humidity of our cigars at all times.

So that's like, there's something regulating in there. It's not just a cooler. It's doing more, actually.

Yeah, it's a humidor. So it's keeping your cigars at a desired temperature.You know, that's kind of a little tough to do because we don't control the weather, but within certain moderation based on where you keep that portable humidor. But most importantly, is the humidity.

Okay?

Yeah, there's a hygrometer and a little humidifier in there that we put in a solution or distilled water. Keeps the cigars snap, crackling, popping for us.

Sounds pricey.

Well, we all have our vices.

That we certainly do. That we certainly do. Yeah. Thank you for explaining that. Cause I've seen them at a couple of the family picnics, and I'm just like, what is that?

Yeah, that sounds like a portable humidor you just described.

Okay, well, you know, for all the photographers that are listening that are out there, you know, you've been around for 19 years, very long. Very sustainable. You know, what's the one thing people misunderstand about running a photography business?

That it's a whole lot more than just shooting.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a whole lot more than taking pictures. I just did a. I'll just give you a couple aspects of this. So 19 years professional. Right. I was working on.

Congratulations.

Thank you. I was working on submission and it took me back through the whole 19 years of my career.So in order to go and look at 19 years of photographs, when you're taking 10,000, 15,000 pictures a year, those have to be stored someplace, right? Yeah, yeah. They're not all. You know, that's not a memory card created yet that can hold all of those. So, I mean, just portable storage alone.I think I have. I'm coming up on maybe two dozen portable drives, you know, that have to be managed and cataloged, stored properly. Please don't drop one.You know, don't let it tip over on the desk.But, you know, managing your storage, you got a website, you got software, you got social media, you've got hardware, you know, there's camera gear itself, there's the computers that we work with because quiet is kept. The little touchpad notebook that your kid using in school, at college or whatever, not necessarily the same thing that we can use.You know, you're managing 30 gigabyte files. It takes a computer of note to kind of manage that stuff, you know. And don't be the kind of person that dibble dabbles in video too.So, you know, now we need graphics card, not the graphics card that comes on the motherboard. Separate.

Yeah, separate graphics card.

It has its own ram. So. Yeah, it's just there's a lot of moving parts, you know, like. Like when anything.

Yeah.

You know, it's a lot of things that we don't see a lot of people look at us and just pitch a man. Yeah, it's a little bit more than.

That with social media and photography. Like, how has it compared to you when you didn't need social media to now, like, do you think you need social media in your photo business?Like, has it helped your photo business?

Yeah, yeah. That was something, wasn't it? You know? Yeah. Now, I don't know, I'd imagine there's probably somebody somewhere making it.Without social media, I can't picture a world for 40 photography without it really just for having different platforms and outlets where people can see you, you know, I mean, it's all about being at the forefront of people's minds. And however you can effectively do that, radio, tv, social media, your web presence, I mean, social media.And it took a couple years for me to understand how big social media really is. I get more people ask me for a social media handle than I do a website.

Yeah. That's something.

That's the first thing people. Okay. Do you have an Instagram? Wow. What happened to website? You know? But, yeah, it's essential for us to have outlets on social media.It's the way a lot of people refer us. A lot of people find us organically. It gives us a way to put the things out there, you know, that we're proud of, so people can stay engaged with us.But, yeah, it's pretty big, Stephanie.

It is pretty big. I am always trying to settle my relationship with social media, and I won't get into that today because it's about you.

But we understand, man.

Is it something.

It is something. It is something.

Yeah. Like. And then as far as, like, success goes, like, you know, how has it. What is it compared to, like, from when you first started? Did it make sense?Like, what does success look like to you now compared to when you first started? Um.

That'S layered a couple ways. But let me explain it like this. If you can pay your bills with your camera, that's a good thing.

Yeah, I would think so.

Yeah. Yeah, you can pay your bills, your studio rent, you know, your house to whatever, all the stuff. You folks listening? You got bills.You know what I'm talking about. You can pick up a camera and in 30 days, touch enough lives, have enough satisfied people from your work, you know, take place.And at the end of the month, you've got happy customers, and you got nobody looking for you. You don't have any pink things in the mail. You're doing meaningful, intentional work. I think you're successful.

Yeah. That's real.

And you have a sense of pride about what you've done.

And you can afford a portable humidor.

Absolutely.

Come on, somebody.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Because we all have our vices.

Yes. And I have several.

Yes. Wow. Okay. Lifestyle. Geez, I love that. Pay your bills, have enough for your advice. No ping things in the mail. Nobody looking for you equals success.

Amen.

I love that. Okay, that sounds good. Mm. Ooh. Do you have a lesson that you had to learn the hard way?

Yeah.

What?

Redundancy. I'm not a Navy man. My little brother is, but I'm not a Navy man.I didn't understand the importance of saving your work, which is other people's memories in more than one place.

Okay.

Until one autumn afternoon back in the fall of 2010, I think it was hard drive crashed on the computer.

Yikes.

Yeah. I lost everything.

Oh, my gosh.

Every single thing.

Yeah. I'm really sorry to hear that.

Yeah. Yeah, it was A tough day. Never again, though, okay? Never again.

It only takes one time.

It only takes one time. You lose all your work. I'm telling you, there's.

Whoo.

Forehead of sweating right now just thinking about it.

Yeah. That's brutal. That's brutal. I remember and I would shoot film.I watched someone developing their film, and then they opened up the canister and all the film was black. And I can't remember what they said they did. And they thought that that could be. But they were like, never again.Because, you know, it took about, like, an hour to stand there and, like, twist that film canister and get it all developed. And it's just like. It's brutal. It only takes one time. But that's a hard one time.

Yeah. I have another lesson about the importance of deposits.

Bank deposits?

No, of work deposits. Oh, you know.

What do you mean? Work deposit?

Yeah. When someone wants to book you to do a job, it's important to take a deposit on the front end. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.Word is bond, but deposit is better.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

That'S a good idea.

Yeah. Once upon a time, I. Yeah. Didn't take deposits and just took people what they were.And all it takes is one time to show up someplace where you thought you were hired to do something. And. Oh, oh, no, we. Yeah, we decided to do such and such. My uncle, my cousin, a friend is gonna do it for us. Yeah. All it took was one time.Many, many years ago.

Yeah. Yeah, man, that's brutal. I'm not mad at you for taking deposits.There's so many folks I have relationships with where they do, just trust me that the money will come. But you say, don't do that. Okay.

No, they don't let you leave out the grocery store until you paid. So.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Yeah. You gotta. We gotta have systems of control. I mean, we really do.And they change based on business type and structure, but, yeah, that's one that really works for us.

Yeah, that is a thing that, like, they do say when people have to pay for stuff, they will show up. I think I'm nerdy enough that I'm gonna show if I just say so, but. Yeah, no, get the cash.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, it's important. Just what it is.

Yeah. I wish.Listen, I wish you could see, you know, Lawrence sitting here with his hand just on his forehead, just, like, shaking his head like, yeah, get the deposit. Try to tell ya it's so true Try to tell ya oh, my gosh, Lawrence. Well, you're Also a father. And you love being a dad.

Absolutely.

I feel like when we talk greatest job in the world, you were. You're, like, traveling. Like, your kid's, like, all into football and stuff.

Yeah. My oldest is playing college football. He is.

That's exciting.

It is. It really is.

I'm not a sports person, so I'm always like, what if I have a kid and they want to do sports? Now I have to go to this game.

Yeah. Before the game, you got to take them to practice.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

There's more practices than our game, so. Yeah. Get ready.

Geez. How long are the practices usually?

About two hours.

Whoa.

Yeah. Just depends, you know, how old they are. My oldest is 20. He started playing football when he was 6. Youth football.And back then, they didn't practice every day, but it was a couple times a week, couple hours a day for.

Potential parents who might have kids that play sports. Is it an expensive thing? Is this why we need to make sure we're taking deposits?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to take deposits. Photographers, so you can pay your kids participation fees.

Okay. Participation fee, Absolutely.

Yeah. Sports. Youth sports can be expensive. Varies by sport. But my approach to it.We exposed our sons to everything we could to figure out what they liked, what they excelled at, and what taught them the best life skills. So football was the clique for our oldest, Lawrence.After trying T ball and soccer and basketball and something else I can't think of, that's what worked for him.

So there is a documentary that I'm trying to search for right now, and I cannot. This list is not coming up. But it's about kids in sports. It's a whole world. It's very interesting.

I am a big proponent of sports for kids. Nothing else to teach them teamwork, discipline, accountability, and leadership. That is the role of sports.And if it turns to something else beyond that, great. But socially, I think all kids need that.

Are any of them interested in photography?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. They, you know, they both carry on the family business.

You know what I mean?

Probably my youngest. Probably Langston.

Okay.

Langston is really. Langston documents everything. They're both iPhone kids, so, you know, they do okay with that. Lawrence takes a lot of pictures as well.

Are they printing?

Langston will print.

Okay.

Somehow, some way, I did not teach this kid, but he done figured out a way to print his pictures on our home network using the network printer. You know, I never taught him. I just looked up, and I.He's got prints on the wall, you know, so I'm torn between a sense of pride and marvel and, you know, thinking, hey, kid, you adding to the ink bill, man? What's going on? But I'm glad he figured it out.

But he does print. Maybe he'll be into, like, making zines or something.

Hey, I just gave the kids some 40 photography shirts. You on the payroll, buddy. Let's go. BTS is your job. Get on it.

You know, you are really good at making shirts for your business. You're wearing a great one now. A peach one. Is it peach?

It is.

Okay. I love it.

Thank you.

What other ways do you market that I can do you have any other trade secrets that I can take from you around just, like, marketing your business?

No T shirts. Yeah, we do. We do give away T shirts from time to time to our clients.

Oh, okay. That's nice.

We wear stuff. The entire team, folks who work with us from time to time, they have branded gear, but, yeah, I'm kind of big on apparel.

Yeah.

Going back from a previous life in sports, you know, we just. We do that. That's just something special about a logo on the chest.

You know, with social media as I'm. I've been trying to do more off of social media and my.

Off of social media.

Yeah. Like, where I'm not, like, using social media so much.And I've been trying to get into more, like, offline things, and I took a class around offline marketing. Really? Yeah. And apparel was one of the things like. Oh, yeah, get a T shirt. Put your logo. Stickers. I have some stickers.

Never had that.

Yeah. Where you can just put, like, you know, at Co Prosperity, they have a area where you can, like, put flyers and stuff. And I put stickers there.That was a thing in zines. Making little, like, you know, zines of, like, your work. Zines. Yeah. Like little magazines that were like, little.

Oh, yeah.

That you can just leave with your information.

Zines.

Mm. Flyers. Posting flyers.

I have done flyers.

Yes. And then, of course, a website, as we spoke about.

Right.

Events. You know, there was a guy who was like, people say, how'd you find out about this on social media? And he's like, no. On the website.

Mm.

What else to do?

Yeah, one of those things. A website. How about that?

Yeah. So I love the. I love the logo on the shirt. That's very smart.

Thank you.

You know, I think about, like, with photography, do you have favorite photographers who you look up to.

Currently or just ever? Mm.

Ever.

Yes.

Who?

I absolutely do.

Besides your dad?

Yes, beside my dad. One who actually I just spent some time with about two months ago is the legendary John H. White.

Oh, yes.

He looked a prize winning photographer.

Yeah.

And it's so strange. We grew up in the same church.

Okay.

So that's how I met Mr. White, who was a really good friend of my grandmother's.

Okay.

And I just used to see this guy at church, you know, every Sunday, you know, sitting across from my grandma. It wasn't until she start keeping press clippings of his work in the house. And that's when I realized.And I was just going through these photo albums. She's got all these articles and Wendy won the Pulitzer. And I was like, hey, that's the guy from church. She's like, yeah, he's a photographer.I was like, wow. Okay. And that started my little research thing.But having somebody who's approached to photography was very humane, very global, very universal, very emotive. That started me kind of looking at. At other people. That's how I found out about Gordon Parks. And I love Shaft.Yeah, you know, he did all of that stuff. But yeah, I would study magazine covers, you know, and then figure out a way to how do they make that? You know, and that's kind of where I began.I studied album covers. Still do.

Yeah.

You know, not. Well, I know most people like album cover. What's that?Well, you know, back in our day, when I was a little kid, when a musician put out a record, you know, they did a photo shoot and put it on this cardboard thing and, well, that was the album cover. Just some of the best work ever, you know, album covers. But yeah, I would say Gordon Parks, John H. White. I like some of Richard Avedon's stuff.I think there's a photo he did of. His name was Lou Alcindor then, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar back on the streets of Harlem. I never forget that picture.So, yeah, yeah, I have a lot, A lot love Andy Leibowitz's stuff.

I like her too.

Yeah. In fact, that her work took me to what's. The lady makes all of her canvases by hand. Oliphant, Sarah Oliphant.

Okay.

A lot of the background things that Annie Leibowitz uses in her work are made by Sarah Oliphant. Hand painted canvases. Absolutely love them.I started tinkering around with those about six years ago and I've gotten, you know, I'm not Sarah Oliphant, but I'm gotten to the point where I make some very usable canvases in my work. So you see Me shooting on a canvas. I made it. I painted.

I love that.

Thank you. I painted about, I think, 12, 14 of them by now.

I was gonna ask, like, what does practice in photography look like for you now? You know, outside of the. You said the album covers, but.

Yeah, practice looks like grabbing a friend or grabbing a client when you have an idea. Matter of fact, I just did this.Haven't posted the results yet, but if I have an idea, I have a concept or something that I want to do, I reach out to someone I know, one of my former clients or a friend, and we go put it together. I talk to them and I explain. This is what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing it. This is why I want you for it. Here's what I see.And do you think you can do it? And then we go do it.

I love that you go back to your clients to practice.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta hang out with your stakeholders, you know?

Huh. Yeah, I like that idea a lot.

Yeah. People that. Yeah, I know some people are big into models and they go to these websites and, you know, the model mayhems and stuff like that.Nah, not me.

Mm.

Mm.

Well, I think what I like about that is that it just keeps the relationship going so much. I'm just like a quick, go on to this, go on to that instead of, like, going back.

Yes, yes.

And, you know.

Yes.

Maybe that's a. Is that a trade secret or that's just common sense? I don't know.

I don't know if it's a trade secret. A lot of people do it. You know, relationships are wealth.

Yeah.

You know, that's how we get things done in this world. You know, quality of your life is, you know, quality of communication and your relationships.

Yeah.

It's just how we get stuff done.

That's a great idea. I need to do that. I feel like even, like, with, like, my podcast, I'll just interview, interview, interview, interview.Because I'm always just like, quick, onto the next one. If it's a film project, I work on the film project next. By next one, go, go, go, go, go. And then I don't ever, like, really look back.Maybe I need to look back in 2026.

Yeah, I mean, I think.

Or maybe I'm not conscious of it. Maybe I might do it. Not conscious of it. I don't know. It's hard to know.

It kind of depends, you know, I think you're working it at some levels because you have to have relationships, to have somebody come sit down and Talk to you like this.

That's true.

You know, so you're using it, and I'm not sure how repetitive that can be for you in this line of work. I'm not, you know, I don't know. It's my first time being on the radio, but, you know, it seems to be working.

Yeah, hopefully.

You said this is episode number what?

Well, this is. Let's see here. I've been on Lumpin for a few months, but with my podcast project, this will be. I'm almost at 100 episodes.

Almost at 100 episodes.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's a lot.

Yeah. But I don't go back. See, that's why I'm trying to be more like you, to go back.

Well, I think 100th episode is a good time to start evaluating that.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Do you have, like, an evaluation process on your own business and practice?

I do. I do. I recently. When I say recent, I'm probably talking four or five years, but I asked for Google reviews.

Okay.

You know, in a place where, you know, people can be open and honest, you know, give us the feedback that we want. I spend a lot of time on the front end thinking about the experience.I bring others in to kind of help manage that experience, because I don't want to wear too many hats doing either photo session or I'm working an event, you know, kind of you want to bring in some other brains. You know, if you're the only brain in the room, you know, you're losing.

Yeah.

So I've done that. You know, I listen to the feedback, especially from my clients, you know, they're the ones.They're the best people to talk to about what you're doing, you know, how you feel, what you think about it, you know, So I spend a lot of time there.

Yeah, you do a lot with your clients. You ask for feedback, they're modeling for you.

All sorts of stuff you gotta know.

You have brunches. That's another marketing thing you do.

You have brunches and gotta know who your base is.

Wow.

You gotta know. You gotta know.

You gonna have a business school? I think you'd be good at it.

No, I don't think so. I'll teach a class.

Okay.

I don't have a business school.

I love that you're the neighborhood photographer. You're in Bridgeport now.If folks are thinking, I like this guy, I want to photograph, you know, my family, you know, where can folks find more information about you?

Well, we've been talking about social media all day.

Right. Yup.

Yeah, we are 40 photography on everything. You know, spelled out 40 spelled out. That's right. No numbers, F, O, R, T, Y. Same as the website. It's just 40 photography.Yeah, that's a good place to start. Social media website. We'll talk to you.

That's so nice.

Yeah.

I really appreciate you talking to me.

I appreciate you asking.

Yes. You know, you're just so wonderful. I'm even sort of curious about your father's war photography. I would love to see that.

Yeah.You know, I, you know, once upon a time, I think maybe when my little brother was in high school, the history teachers used to bring him in during the Vietnam War segment and he, you know. Cause he's, he's got these projectors with, he's put stuff on slides.Yeah, but to try to get him to talk about that and show that again, I mean, he would love to. It's just finding somewhere to do that.

Yeah.

You know, but he's got. You call him, I'll put you in touch with him. He'll sit down and show you all that stuff. Helmets and bayonets and he's got a.He's got his own little archive.

I love it.

Yeah, it's really, it's really something to see. We gotta do something with that.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, we gotta do something with that.

Well, thank you so much for being on Nosy AF on Lumpfin Radio.

Thank you. You certainly are nosey. Ask a lot of questions.

Lady listener. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. This is the last conversation of the new year. So bye, see you next year.

Bye everybody.

That's a wrap on another episode of Nosy AF conversations about art, activism and social change. I'm your host, Stephanie Graham. If you enjoy today's conversation, please leave a five star rating and review.Wherever you are listening to the show, it helps new listeners discover it and say, hey, if these folks like this show, maybe I will love it too.Check out full show notes and transcripts@noseyaf.com and while you're there, sign up for Nosy AF Dispatch, a newsletter where every month I send a roundup of episodes, behind the scenes stories, studio tales and interesting finds straight to your inbox. Thank you so much for your time today. Today, thanks for listening and as always, stay curious and take care. Bye.