Mental Health for Expats — Building Community Abroad with Moved With Peace

Hey, everyone. Welcome. And welcome back to noseyAF conversations about art, activism and social change.I'm your host and friend, Stephanie Graham, and today I have a fellow Stephanie on the show, which is honestly a first for this podcast. I don't know about you, but whenever I meet someone who shares my name, it always sort of makes me chuckle. It's just like, oh, hi.But quick heads up before we get into everything today, this episode includes an open and honest discussion about postpartum depression and mental health challenges. So please, please, please take care of yourself and listen when it feels right for you.So my guest today is Stephanie Rubinato, and she's doing something I think is super necessary but rarely talked about. Stephanie's creating space for conversations about mental health and moving abroad.Because here's the thing, we all see these gorgeous YouTube channels of couples living their best lives in Spain, Portugal, Costa Rica. But what about the postpartum depression? What about isolation?What about not being able to communicate in your new language and feeling as if you've maybe lost your intelligence? So I'm really happy to have Stephanie today because these are some of the things we talk about.Stephanie's moved with peace project and why mental health for immigrants and expats need more attention. How Stephanie has navigated postpartum depression while living in Italy with two small kids.The misconceptions about doing it all when you're actually just trying to keep it together. And why sometimes the goal is just maximum joy for minimum effort.So let's get with our theme music and have a conversation that's honest grounding and perfect for anyone who's ever felt like they need to have it all figured out. Which really, spoiler alert. Nobody does. Welcome to Nosy af, a star with a mission in the cause.What you're doing, how you doing, what you're doing and who you are. Flex yourself and press yourself. Check yourself, don't wreck yourself. If you know me, then you know that I be knowing what's up.

Hey, Stephanie.

Graham is nosy as.

Stephanie.

Welcome to Nosy af.

Thank you.

Thank you. Stephanie, I'm so happy to have you here. You're the first other Stephanie I've had on the podcast, so what a treat. Yay.

Can't have too many Stephanie's.

I know, right?

I don't know anyone actually.I mean, I know like a few people named Stephanie, but I don't know, I feel like that name is not as popular as other names that have come out in the last decade or so.

So true. I know when I Was in eighth grade. I feel like I went to school with two other Stephanie's, black Stephanie's at that. And it was just like, so crazy.So everybody, like, called us by. They always had to say our, like, full name, you know, like, did you know Stephanie Graham did this? You know, but yeah.So I want to talk to you about your project, Moved with Peace. Can you tell us, like, a little bit about this project? What inspired Moved with Peace?Was there, like, a particular moment when you realized peace was something you wanted to build a whole community around?

Yes, yes. It has stemmed from my personal experience having moved to Italy, but actually encompassing many years of moving.I was an Air Force kid and I moved around quite a lot. And spanning moves from different age brackets and up to being an adult and adult with family.Moving to Italy this time around was a complete new experience because of taking care of two little ones. And also I had a mental health challenge that I was dealing with.And I realized that the narrative around living in another country, people talk a lot about all the other aspects of that, of work, of relationships, family, the job, culture. But what about mental health initiatives and challenges and things that people face?So I wanted to start that discussion with people, especially immigrants and migrants, expats, digital nomads, anyone who's not living in their home country and living somewhere else. How they navigate those challenges and how we strive to be at peace, but sometimes we don't manage to be there all the time.There are moments, you know, seasons when things are high and then seasons where things are low. So I wanted to start building a community, you know, discussion around this and how there's no shame in sharing the journeys that are difficult.Because it's not always the rose colored glasses.

Right? It's not always like the beautiful couple that has the YouTube channel that's like, look at our move to Spain. Yeah, it's like.And everything just looks so perfect.

Yeah, exactly. Like, what was the behind the scenes? Like? Like, what about immigration? What about bureaucracy?What about, did you find the right place when you first moved? Was there any stigmatism around, you know, being an American and taking over locals homes and apartments and things?Because, you know, those are issues that locals, you know, face when gentrification happens in other parts of the world, all around the world.

So, yeah, I remember I was watching a YouTube channel, speaking of YouTube, where it was a woman who had moved to Ghana and she was having a conversation with a local being, like, am I a part of the problem of, like, you know, of like, things rising around here?You Know, because, like, Americans are moving here, and, you know, she was saying that it was a challenge because they moved there for, like, a more affordable life.But then maybe people find out, oh, all these Americans, let's raise the price, that maybe it's still something that they can afford, and now it's just, like, a mess for everybody.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Find balance of wanting to immerse yourself in culture and also be able to live a life that you want. But of course, not impacting the local community. That's already where you have moved to and supporting and uplifting them.But, of course, the systematic things that are in place, you can't control some of that. So, yeah, you can only do what you can.

Right. You're, like, the first person I know of that, like, centers mental health around moving abroad. Was it, like, reflective?Like, as you look back now, thinking, like, hey, you know, this is something important, or did you realize it, like, while you were having challenges? You're like, I need somebody, like, a community around, like, while I'm going through this.

It was reflective for sure, because while I was in it, I was doing a lot of masking, and I had postpartum depression when I moved to Italy. I had started therapy while I was in New York. I wasn't able to continue when I left.And it took me about a year and a half, maybe around a year, to find a therapist that I felt comfortable speaking with and sharing my struggles.I wanted a woman, a woman of color, someone who was already on this side of the world in Europe, and someone who spoke English and who understood the lived experience of being an immigrant or migrant expat, whatever you feel you are. And I found that through another woman who is based in Milan, and I believe her name is Tia Taylor, and she is a Nigerian American.And she had mentioned who her therapist was, and so I sent her a dm and I said, hey, would you mind sharing who your therapist is? Because I need support.

Yeah, yeah, man. Shout out to her for not gatekeeping. You know, some people be like, oh, you know, like, I don't know if I should be sharing.And it's just like, come on, man. You know, it's not like you're gonna say, hey, y'. All. You know, Natalie's also going to Tia. You know, stuff like that.You know, you're just gonna keep it to yourself. But, yeah, I really appreciate when folks will, like, clearly share resources like that. So important.

Yeah, it's super important. And so I pay it forward when someone, you know, is asking for therapist support and Information. And I freely share it with the okay. Of my therapist.Of course.

Yes.

Right.

Like, don't send me everybody. Right.

I'm sure she may not have the capacity to have so many clients at the moment, but, you know, I try to help people the way I can.And after I was in the process of healing and being able to finally be on the other side a little bit in more clarity, I realized that it's super important to lean on a community that you can create where you are. I definitely felt that while I was still in my postpartum depression, I was kind of spiraling and going inward and not reaching out to people.It took me time to realize who I could feel comfortable relating to. So, you know, that's another layer.But once I did find that tribe and, you know, fully leaning on them, saying, hey, I met this moment in time, you know, not doing all right, but, you know, I'm reaching out just to say, hey, if you guys are able to just.Someone has the capacity to just listen or talk or even go for a walk or something like that, and, you know, people showed up and really made an effort to not let me get into a deeper spiral.

Yeah. Yeah, that's really good.I'm happy that you had people to be able to show up for you, you know, just to be able, like, to go on a walk or whatever, you know, Something that sort of, like, takes me on a bit of a tangent is when you have a friend who might need support in that way, and you're on a walk, and as you're listening, you're like, oh, this is really heavy. And now they're like, what do I say or do? Any advice around that?

Absolutely.First, it's always okay to say that you either have the capacity or don't have the capacity to be there as a support system for them, in the sense of you having the capacity to listen and show up for them, but you don't know what you can do for them.You can honestly just say that as well, like, hey, I really care about you, and I'm thinking about you, and I don't know what you might need at this point or this moment in time. I'm here to listen. Sometimes just even saying that can be really comforting. Sometimes, you know, people don't want necessarily advice or a solution.They just want someone to acknowledge that they're going through some pain and that they're not alone and that if they do want some resources or think they need support in a professional way, you can reach out to other folks who May have had some experiences with it. Of course, not fully disclosing what your friend may be going through or whatnot.

Right, right.

But giving them just the open channel of them saying, yes, I think maybe I could use some professional help or I don't know what I need at this time. But you're just being here is enough.

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Thank you for that advice.Because I remember one time in particular I was in church and this woman was telling me like her story and it was just so much. I was just like, wow. And I didn't know what to say. But then the evangelist like grabbed her away.She's like, you're too young hearing her story anyway, she shouldn't be doing that to you. And I was just like, oh, okay. It was all just a while. Oh, my goodness. Her away.

Right?

Just whisked her away. She's like, here, I'll talk to her. She shouldn't be telling you this, you know, like you're in college, you know, and she's like a grown woman.I was like, oh, okay. I was listening though.You know, one thing that I think is like, that I love with your work is that you focus on like slow living and self trust and like, how do you personally practice those things in a world that's constantly telling us move faster, do more. Even like in this world of like self care, I feel like where you would think people were slowing down, you know, it doesn't feel like that, right?Yeah, yeah.

You kind of get that urgency of you gotta get better, you gotta get back on the good foot, it's temporary, it's gonna all pass. And I mean, yeah, of course we hope it will pass. We just don't have a definitive timeline when it will pass. Right.And put yourself on a deadline to say, okay, this is when I'm healed and I can do more things and be able to live my life again. Right. It really does not work that way.So I actually had taken a break from social media for about a year and a half and quietly, without fanfare, just, you know, deactivated my Instagram, Just all platforms just quietly just left for a bit of time.And I had gotten a lot of anxiety just around so much information coming at you, content coming at you, and needed quiet and just to focus on the coping skills that I learned with working with my therapist and having real life connection with people, just being present in the world and physically being around other people. I feel like our world is so digitally tech infused.Being in the real world and just being out with people helped me to just be grounded and understand that I have my own rhythm and I need to just always listen to that and be aware of the push and pull that I get.

Yeah.

And then I'm not in competition with anyone. Competition. And I shouldn't even be in competition with myself.

Yeah.

I am building my own foundation, a new foundation. And I don't have to be on any timeline. It's how I feel as I'm growing and changing and what feels right. Yeah.So I do a lot of journaling, a lot of writing, a lot of meditation. It's a definitely weekly, if not daily practice. I try to do it daily.

Okay.

Especially definitely every week.

Yeah.

And affirmations. I do a lot of affirmations too. I love affirmation cards and I use Intelligent Change.Not trying to promote them or anything, but I really love their affirmation cards that. And so I've been using them a lot and. Yeah.So really just listening to that rhythm in myself of how things are moving and giving myself grace, really. You know that all things come to you when they should.

Yeah. Did you. Are you. So you stayed off of social media for a year and a half. Did you go back or are you still off?

I am. From back on. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I feel like with social media in particular, Instagram or maybe, maybe all social media, it just feels like an extra task.I was even thinking for this podcast, you know, like, I released an episode and then I'll write like an email about it and all of that. But then I'm like, okay, now I have to pull these clips for social media. And when I'm like, maybe I'll stop.But then I feel bad, I'm like, well, I already. I posted clips for all these other people. Like, what about the next people? You know? But it's just like.And I do get that folks that are on there, they do want something to link to so that they can share. Like, hey, I was on this. So I feel like most of the time when I do that, it's for. It's in service of them. Yeah. But man, that's.It's still just like a lot to re. Watch the clips and pull it.Like, I feel like my tension with social media also comes in the, like, creation for social media when I rather just like, I created this episode and that should just be it, you know, And I should be able to move on.

Yeah.

But it's like, if I'm gonna post something, it better be worth it. Like, so let me Do a good job about being intentional about it. But that takes so much energy.And I feel like if I think when leaving social media, there's really good. Now I've been paying attention to like the movement people on there who have, like, do this exercise, like for your hip, you know, or whatever.I'm like, oh, my gosh, do they have YouTube? Do they have like a podcast? And a lot of them don't, they just use Instagram?And I'm like, oh, my God, I don't wanna miss these like great hip opener ideas you have, you know? But like, gosh, just like, I totally feel you when you say, you know, you just wanted quiet.

Yeah.

You know, there's not even really like an easy way to just like post quietly and just leave it alone, you know, like, if there was, I guess I could just post it and then like walk away from it. I'll have to think about that because, like, I would just rather do that if so. But I just say all this to say that I totally get. You know what?It's too loud. This is too much.

Goodbye.

And just like need some quiet. I totally get that.

Yeah, I needed a lot of quiet in the last year. Also from my own sanity of not having imposter syndrome about other people's joys and things like that. Like, it was just.I think the only way I felt even more quiet when coming back online was starting the blog because it felt very intimate where the audience could find me or they couldn't and I didn't have to feel like I need to get all these hashtags and things like that.I mean, of course there's the keywords and SEO and all of that, but as you're writing your blog post, I don't know, I felt connected in a different way than I had before. And I feel like blogging and then with email, they still kind of have this kind of intimate way of connecting because they're channeled to you. Right?So. But yeah, I think if Instagram shut down tomorrow, I would not be sad, right? TikTok shut down tomorrow, I would not be Sad.I think YouTube is the only other platform that I still really do like going because I learned so much from the platform.There's so many tutorials and so many interesting documentaries and indie content that people are creating, you know, like, and it's long form, so like, it takes my attention and keeps it there, you know, like, as opposed to the short form content that's just like the quick dopamine hit.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I Totally get that. I know when Tick Tock came back, I was like, man, I was hoping it would go away so that everybody could just get off of it.But I'm like, you know what? That's okay, because there are people who really, really do enjoy TikTok. But, you know, you have, like, family and, you know, you're moving.You blog, you know, you do films, you do all this stuff. And I'm just so curious. What is, you know, the biggest misconception you think people have about doing it all?

I think that people believe that you have it all together.

Yeah.

That you are on top of it all and you're maintained and focused and concentrated. When I feel half the time, I'm frazzled and I have to constantly look at my agenda book, my calendar, and remind myself what is happening today.

Yes.

I have to do today.

Yes.

I can't even think. Like, towards the end of the week, I have to. I literally look at each day and say, okay, this is what I'm doing today. This is.What are the things I need to get done? Of course, in my head, I know what I will do every morning, you know, like yoga or movement or meditation or something.But I have to constantly make sure, like, what are the things that I need to make sure I keep doing, make sure I keep writing, make sure I keep connecting with people, make sure that I'm reaching out and having conversations and learning about other people, like, and then family and making sure that my kids have all the things they need in school and their, you know, their projects, and then working with my husband on his business. And it's like I have to compartmentalize parts of my life in these sections of things.

And my messy creative life, I'm always like, be quiet. I don't.

Yeah.

Even though that's the truth. But, like, yeah, I don't.

I don't like that.

For some reason, I don't like that phrase. My messy creative life. Like, be quiet part of it.

It's not like, I don't know a title. It's just like, of course being creative is messy part of the time. Right. Never going to be perfect. So.

Right. It's not like seamless.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has its ebbs and flows and goes all around and turned around and everything. That's. It's a fun. Most of the time.

Yeah. So we've sort of hinted at a little bit, but you currently live in Italy. What brought you to Italy?

Yeah, my husband and I, we came here from New York.We used to live in Harlem and we decided after many years change of scenery, we had two small children and we thought, okay, well, New York is getting a little pricey. We need more support. Because all of my family, they are actually not from New York and some folks live in New Jersey and other people live.My mom lives several hours away in Virginia. So we had as much support as we could. Family and nannies and babysitters and neighbors and friends.And so we thought, okay, well, let's give Italy a try. We had reservations, of course, about it, and I'm a planner, so I kind of like to think about all of the different scenarios and things.But of course, it still doesn't prepare you for more things that you didn't think about.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it was definitely eye opening experience to be on the other side of the water. And definitely the first, I would say three to four years did not feel settled at all. We didn't even know if we were going to stay in Italy.Like, we were thinking maybe we need to get out of here, we need to go somewhere else, you know? And we finally felt like we had our footing around year five.

Okay, okay.

Year five. Yeah. It took some time. It took some time.

What made you, like, stay the course, you think? Just like, what made you, like, push through just because you had gotten there.

Already or partly the pandemic.

Ah, right, right, right. Because we literally there is that about.

A year and some change before the pandemic happened. And then it was just we were stuck here. Like, you know, that's true. Really became, you know, part of the epicenter.

Yeah.

And things shut down, you know, things closed.

Right. Yeah, that's so true. Oh, my gosh. Like, I feel like, what is time? Like five years ago?Like, yeah, it seems like it took you five years to really start to have your year one because you had to, like, deal with all of pandemic stuff.

Yeah. It was nuts.

Yeah. And Italy was catching it so hard. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, how long have you been living there at this point then? Is it seven years? Seven years.

Okay.

Has living abroad shifted your creative rhythm or, like your sense of identity?

Mm, yes. I have really had to be intentional about my heritage and culture that I grew up with and keeping part of that with me. And not.I don't want to say that I'm totally fully immersed myself as an Italian.Of course, I do want to be in the culture and learn the language and everything, but I have these other rich cultural heritage that I did not want to give up. So maintaining traditions and rituals and things are super important for me.Part of that is missing my family's Guyanese cooking and calling my mom to get recipes and getting certain foods when she comes to visit and things like that, so that I can feel part of that home here. And also passing it down to my children, because they came when they were very little.So their cultural identity has the American aspect, the Italian aspect, and then also trying to fill in a bit of the Caribbean aspect as well. So that's super important for me to maintain and keep in the family.

Yeah.You know the Moved With Peace series that you created, what's been one of the most surprising or emotional stories you've encountered through these conversations you've been having?

Yeah. I feel that a lot of women that I've talked to have had such a wide range of experiences.Some of the common themes that I've seen is feeling this isolation and that they have not found the type of friendships that are below the surface, you know, not just top of meat for coffee. Yeah. And so that's been a real issue as well as being burnt out and feeling like you're not understood.When you are trying to learn a new language and you can't communicate the way you want to because you don't have the vocabulary yet, but you speak in your native tongue, you'll feel as smart as ever, you know, so that's also a big issue, is being able to be understood and communicating your thoughts in a way that you feel that you're getting the message across, you know, relying on somebody else to translate for you all the time. Right.

The Move with piece. It's a YouTube series. Right?

It's a YouTube series that we're in pre production right now.

Okay.

And we'll be launching before the end of the year.And we will be having kind of little fireside chats actually on Instagram as well, where there'll be like 15 to 20 minute chats with people in my community here.And hopefully I'll be able to go abroad to other countries to talk to people, going to be researching some grants for creators to help, you know, fund the project. Because I really want to take it global.Not just within the confines of Italy, of course, but reach out to other places as well, with other lovely people and what they're going through.

If you could dream big, what's the kind of community you're hoping to build with Moved With Peace? Who's it for outside of just, okay, I've moved to another country. Is it just that simple? Or like, you know, I see it.

As a space for immigrants, for migrants, expats, also digital nomads, people.Maybe I'm not necessarily going to be in a permanent place for long, but really a space for us to feel comfortable talking about taboo subjects and mental health and place where we could share resources, share stories, share advice and be able to support one another, you know, in the wins and they come and then they go.And of course we want more wins than none, but there's moments when we have tough strife and leaning on people that you feel you can connect with is super paramount, you know, and it's.

Like, you know, again, I think from the outside, you know, as soon as somebody's like, oh, Stephanie's moving to Italy, it's like, oh, my gosh, that's so fabulous. That's going to be so great. And then we see you go off and then we just think it's fine, you know, and it's like, no, not necessarily.

I'm not in villas every weekend drinking. Right. Yeah. I'm not hanging out at the piazza every weekend and, you know, enjoying everything. Sometimes I have to work. Hello.

Hello.

And support my family and help with the K, you know, I mean, of course, the Italian way of life is very inviting and invites you to really take a slower method of living and also just within the confines of social structure of how things are run in Italy, like from 1:00 o' clock to 4:30, stores are closed.

Yeah.

So if you were trying to rush, get all your errands done on some things, you can't go to that store because it's closed. So you take your break and you have your lunch and coffee, which is, you know, really nice.And do feel like my internal clock has slowed down since coming here from New York because New York is definitely, you're on the go, you're going here, you're going there, you're meeting people, you're doing things. There's always something happening. City that is just always got something going on, which I absolutely love. And always, always down for that.But yeah, of course, when you're a caretaker, it becomes a little bit of a different path. Yeah.

And there's something about, like, if all the stores slow down, it's like, it reminds me of like nap time in preschool. Like, if all the other kids are laying down and going to sleep, you might as well too, because you.There's no, there's no point of you like being up like everybody else asleep. So just fall in line and fall asleep. Yep. Oh, my gosh.Well, speaking of, like Italian culture, you Guys, you and your partner are building the Italian Reset Retreat, right? Which sounds dreamy.

Yes. I've met two other ladies who.One who is also based here in Italy, lives outside of Rome, and then another lady that I met actually through a lovely community group called the OGC Club. And we all connected together and decided that we are going to launch a retreat in 2027.So we have a ways away, but we're planning it, planning it thoroughly.

Yeah.

It's called the Italian Reset, and it's is on serenity, sisterhood, wellness, where we focus not just on food, culture and eating, and also nature, connecting with oneself, movement, mindfulness, and camaraderie together with other women to build lasting friendships and connections that can keep going after they leave the retreat.

Yeah, that sounds great. I mean, who doesn't love a guided tour?First of all, like, guiding me through anything, especially through, you know, another country, and then you're going to get me to reset myself. Sounds like a true dream. And it also is, like, sort of smart.Like, I feel like a good business model, because if you don't like to plan, like, I don't like to plan, like, I would easily, like, I will come to the Italian Reset Retreat, you know, because it's like, I just know, like, I just have to sign up, get my ticket, you know, like, follow Yalls plan, and I'm gonna be good to go.

Yes.

You know, and people really, really love experiences like that.So I love that you're hosting it outside of maybe doing it for, you know, for folks to get healed, but it's also like, such a great business and such a. A great thing to do. Thank you, both sides.

Yeah, we're very excited about it, and it's really cool that, you know, we're all. All three women of color and we all have really great experiences to. To really make this a memorable experience for everyone.And it's not just the, you know, like, oh, going to party in Italy and drink so much wine and have pizza and, you know, gelato and all that stuff, you know, it's a nice addition, of course, and to experience part of that.But, yeah, you know, we really want to feel as though you've come away with a lot of golden gems that you will carry with you, you know, for the rest of your life.

Yeah. You know, one of the last things I just want to ask you is how do you stay so grounded when you're building so much community and creativity?

Yeah, that's a very great question. I lean on friends, actually, a little bit.I've always felt I've been able to at least have a few very close friends that I can just lean on and talk to and reach out to and open up to when I'm trying these things out and working and building these things. And it's been really important to maintain friendships that I had before I left New York because, you know, they were my ride or die. Right.Shouldn't they still be, you know, while I'm in another country? Right. Like, yeah, I don't have to say bye.

Right.

You know, so having them, as well as family have been really helpful to keep me grounded.

Yeah. That's such a treat that you have that, you know, that's, like, so important, too, to think about with friendships like that.Something I'll think about even past our conversation, because I had did a workshop around confidence for this writers group, and it was really fun. But one of the things.Friendship definitely came up a lot in that group, like, how friends will, like, you know, impact folks and thinking about, like, friends that just sort of leave, you know, or whatever. Like, so when you moved, it's like, yo, we could still be friends like this. My location does not change anything about our friendship.But there were folks in there that maybe they had moved, not just across the country, maybe, like, moved in jobs or, you know, just, like, moved. No longer roommates. These types of things that really impacted friendships.And it's just like, dang, you know, it's like, look, if I can't afford this apartment anymore and I'm moving home, like, why does that. Why. How come we have to stop being friends because of that, you know, so friendship is just such a.It's such an important thing, but it's also such a bizarre thing, especially when, you know, the ebbs and flows of it. It's just so bizarre.

Yeah, it really is. Especially as you get older, because I overanalyze things way too much. And so sometimes I have to take a step back and say, okay, why?Why has this relationship kind of faltered or, you know, not the same as it was? And sometimes then I put the blame on myself, and they're like, is it something I did? And then I think, well, no, it's not that.And then there's the other aspect of, like, was I giving so much in a relationship, but I wasn't receiving the same amount of energy? Because sometimes there's that too, where you give.Give so much and you're there, but your battery is not charging up either, and you're feeling like it's too much for you. To keep giving, and then you don't have enough in your boat going.

Right.

And that happens, too. So I have had to say, okay, I'm stepping away. And not, like, cutting off, but saying, okay, this is. I don't want to say. No longer serves me.But it's not nourishing. I guess that makes sense. Like.

Yeah.

You know how you have friends that feel you can. They just. They give you that good nourishment, and then. Yes. Others are just, like, taking it. Taking it, eating it like wolves.Like, I'm just gonna take it all. Yes.

For real.

You know, man.

For real. Yes.

Hot meat or something. I don't know.

Hello. Hello. Yes. Oh, my goodness.

You're like, okay, well, I can't give anymore, so.

Right. You ate it all. You ate all the meat, dog. Like, I have ate it. You ate all of it.

And I have no more.

I have no more.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, what's, like, one thing that you're, like, looking forward to, you know, anything.

Yeah. I will say I am really excited about my winter trip with my sister, and she's actually living abroad. She lives in England.And so we've had the chance to, like, get together over the, like, summer, because she has children as well. And so we've planned this really exciting winter trip to go to the mountains and go skiing and, you know, take some Christmas market trips.So I'm really excited. And my mom is also coming, too, so it's going to be. I'm excited for this, like, winter trip, especially because I'm going before Christmas.Oh, before Christmas Day. And I'm excited not to have to plan or do anything for Christmas. Like, I'm just going somewhere else, and I'm just going to enjoy my time.Like, I don't have to go to the parties, go to family functions, like, because I've been doing that every year, and I'm like, yeah, I just want to not do that right here.

Right, right. Man, I'm trying to get my folks. Like, my mom was like, you're gonna host Thanksgiving dinner?And I'm like, okay, but these folks don't know we're about to be chilling at a restaurant. I'm not trying to have, like, you know, like, pots and, like, the cleanup, the tablecloths, like, flatware.

Yeah.

Yes. And it's like, yo, we can.

Leftovers.

Yeah. Packing people up. It's like, go to this restaurant, chill. Then y' all can come back if you want. And then maybe I'll have, like, that's it.We'll have our pie, we'll have our coffee. That's simple.

Yeah, right?

I can order that from the baker, pull it out before we head to dinner. By the time we come back, we are good to go.And I'm like, this just seems so dreamy, but it also is like, I feel like when I try to, like, pitch this to my family, you know, like, what would my, like, grandmother think about this? You know, like. But I'd be like, look, if grandma was here, I'd be like, grandma, you better get in the car. We're going to the restaurant.

Yeah.

You're going to the restaurant? Yeah.

You do it every year. I mean, year after year, like, planning these things, like family functions for, you know, holidays and things.It really is a lot of effort, you know? It's a lot of effort.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, I am so excited for you to do nothing but ski for the holidays. What a dream. And I hope your kiddos have fun.Your sister and the kiddos have fun. That is. Oh, my gosh. I love it.

What are you looking forward to towards the last three months of the year 2025?

You know, I think I'm just looking forward to being, like, in a clear mind.I'm not sure what that's going to mean yet, but as I'm, like, I've been, like, decluttering my studio, like, organizing, throwing stuff away, and I feel like I'm looking forward to just chilling on the couch with my family and just hanging out. Like, really? Even if it's, like, my cousins that are hosting Christmas, like, another thing I don't have to deal with.Like, I'm just looking forward to just, like, not lifting a finger, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

You know, like, not all the extra. Because it's so stressful and it's already been such a crazy year. I just want to be chilling. Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just low effort.

Low effort.

Maximum joy.

Yes, yes. For real, for real. Like, how much joy can I get for the least amount of effort?

Yeah, yeah, go for that. That's where we're going.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Well, Stephanie, thank you so much for being on Nosy af.

Thank you for having me, Stephanie.

Yes. I love it so much. This has been another episode of Nosy af. I'm your host, Stephanie Grant.If you liked what you heard today, go ahead and give nosy AF some love by leaving a 5 star rating and review wherever you're listening. It helps folks who find the show think, ooh, if they like Nosy af, I might like it too.You can find full show notes and transcripts@nosy af.com and while you're there, sign up for my newsletter. Good stuff only, where I share studio stories, fresh art, messy ideas, and each month's episodes straight to your inbox.Thank you so much for your time today. Until next time, stay curious and take care. Bye.

Sam.