Freedom, Flexibility, and Filling the Gap: How Melquea Smith Built a Creative Life Through Children's Book Illustration

Hey, friends. Welcome and welcome back to noseyAF conversations about art, activism, and social change.I'm your host and friend, Stephanie Graham, and today's guest is truly one of those people who makes you want to sit up a little straighter and also just quit your job. I'm talking to Melqueah Smith, a children's book illustrator, author, world traveler, full time creator, and all around visionary.Melquea a has illustrated multiple picture books, builds beautiful intentional visual stories for kids, and is deeply committed to showing black and brown joy, imagination and possibility on the page.In this conversation, we talk all about traveling through Europe, losing a job and choosing freedom, how children's books actually get made, and why illustration is so much more than just drawing and also what it means to build a creative life that's in alignment with, with your values, your body and your joy.So this episode is like equal parts behind the scenes publishing tea, creative business wisdom, and jumped permission to imagine a different way of living. So let's get into our theme music and welcome to no gaf.Gotta get up, get up tell the whole world you a winner winner Vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you doing, how you doing, what you doing and who you are Flex yourself and press your yourself Check yourself don't work yourself if you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie. Graham is nosy as well. First, let me just start by saying, Melquea , welcome to noseyAF.

Oh my gosh, Stephanie, I am so happy that we're here and that we're doing this.

Yes, me too. Considering that you just got back. You are like a world traveler and you just got back home from Belgium. How was Belgium?

Yes. So it was a part of a larger trip.

Okay.

As of. Was it June 18? Ish. I was in Philadelphia for a conference called the American Library Association Conference. And I say that because it's such a big.It's such a big name.

Yeah. It's so chic.

Wow. It's so Chicago. But it's literally just like a bunch of librarians where we are. It's literally librarian focused.But as an author and as an illustrator in the picture book world or as even in publishing, it's a great way to be able to go to these events where it's not about you, it's about the librarian, it's about connecting them with books and with books that they are diversifying their own shelves.And also it's great because a lot of agents and editors and publishers are there and they're not on guard because people aren't trying to pitch to them, you know. And it's also really fun having postcards as an illustrator and just saying, hi, I'm Iniella's Tweed. Would you like a postcard?And they're like, oh my God, I bought a postcard. And I'm just like, here you go, here you go, here you go. You can choose which one. Like, oh my God, you drew this? I'm like, yes, I did.So it's super fun. It's really fun. People geek out about my art and it's really, really nice.So I went there and I had about, I think 160 postcards that I wanted to give away. I came, I still had 30. So I'm like, you know what, that's, that's pretty good. It's a good turn up.And I was like, I was literally like dollar singles, just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Just taking like you get a postcard, you.

Leaving a bunch of rain postcards.

On these marks, Postcards, like, doing my best. And then also if anyone said anything nice to me or if I said anything nice to someone else, like, wait, would you like a postcard? And I'm like, yes.So hopefully it's there. You know, at the most they're just hanging on someone's refrigerator door and it's just like a nice bright spot in their lives. Hopefully.

Also, what were on the postcards?

Ooh. So I have, I had three different artists pieces. Three or five depend on the design.And I had lovely meeting you at ala and I had an illustration and then on the back it had my name, my title, like Melquea Smith, illustrator, author, open for picture books, middle grade and book covers. And then I had a QR code that had my manuscript wish list, which is literally just agents, editors and art directors.They have this thing called a manuscript wish list where it's like, these are the types of books that if you fit this realm or if you write this type of work, then we are more likely to be a good fit.

Okay.

It's agents, editors and art directors. And I'm like, but I might be an illustrator, but why not? I have a manuscript wish list.So self published authors approach me or even agents, editors or art directors that are looking on my website, they get to see my own manuscript wishlist of the things that I want to work on.And it's literally, it could be as simple as, here are the genres of work I like, here are the types of stories I like, here are the types of stories I am not a good fit for. Okay, so but for me, it's very much like. Like a snapshot of all the types of stuff I'm into.So if I were to get, I don't know, a song, the Hedgehog IP project, I like stop what I'm doing and say yes. Or like a My Little Pony Friendship is Magic kind of IP project. Or here's all the types of kids shows that I love.Here's the type of movies that I love. There's like little snippets about me that if there's a book project in that world.So like fun fact, in my local city, I co founded my local cosplay group. If there was a children's book about cosplay, I would be the illustrator for that. Like, for sure.You know, I now, even though I'm not into cosplay, now I'm more into Japanese fashion and it's my. My style is inspired by Japanese fashion. And so you. There's little things and snippets about me.Here are all the adult shows I'm interested in just for like to. Because I have such a broad range of things I'm into and interested in.Here are the video games I'm interested in, you know, just so that people have an idea of like who I am and what I like and what has inspired me from basically childhood into adulthood. Yeah. And I'm a huge nerd, so.And I want to lean more into that, you know, through my illustration and through my personal brand and so my own manuscript wish list. And then on that postcard also has my email, also has my website, just kind of like, here's how you can get to contact me.And it was just like a snapshot of like we met. If you ever reach out, this is how you can reach out. And it's just one of many ways of connection.And so that was on the postcard and what I did was I have three different types of postcards, three complete different colors. And I had folks choose which ones they want.

Oh, okay. Cute.

To add a little bit of interactivity. And some people might be like, I like this one the most. Or oh, I like this one. Or can I have all three? I'm like, you totally can.I'm trying to get rid of all these things.

I love that you better network. I loved you. I love that you made it custom. That's like, that's so smart.

Yeah.

Well, I should do more custom things.

Yes. And I would. I'm stuck with 30 that says that's true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you know it, there's a mix, but also I can just flip it over and just go and just tack it onto, like billboards, or not the billboards, but those little bulletin boards, like when you go to restaurants and like community places and do it that way too. So I'm like, okay, it's not all is lost. I don't have to worry about the ALA part. It'll be fine.

I love a community board. I, I, I stop and look at them every single time.

It's the best way to figure out what events are happening. Or, oh my God, there's a free csa like for, for veggies and fruits or, ooh, super class. Like, it's so cool.Especially when you're exploring new cities and new countries. It's, it's really, really fun.

Yeah.

Like the first, the first part of my travels and then directly from ALA I had about a day. I can kind of ship my books back, ship my stuff back, some stuff back. And then I flew directly to Germany for a week.I was in Germany, I was in Frankfurt for about a week. I did a few side trips and then I was in Belgium. And that was the five weeker. And that was really fun.I was in Belgium for five weeks, pet sitting two cats and a chicken with my partner.And it was really interesting because one, being in Belgium for five weeks was really cool because I was able to really settle in and really take in the transit or take in being in a location for that long and also kind of focus on my illustration work and really come up with a plan of like, okay, but how do I want to show up for this? Because during that whole entire time I was navigating, losing my job.

No, I'm so sorry.

You know, I, I'm waiting for about a year for me to say losing my job was a blessing in disguise. Yeah, but we, we knew that our job, we knew that, like, things were looking a little bleak, especially in the fundraising world.I worked for a non A nonprofit and nonprofit that focused on trauma informed criminal justice reform. And honestly, just building a completely new system that was not law enforcement, that wasn't reliant on law enforcement.And so I worked in fundraising and my supervisor and even our ed, we knew that our funders were starting to sunset. It wasn't sexy to fund this stuff anymore. 2020, oh, man, rage. Giving was all a thing. But, but 2025, like our own funders are starting to sunset.People are shifting priorities, to say the least. And unfortunately, just we knew that There was a. We had to figure out what we wanted. Like what did we want to do as an organization.So I knew in about. I'd say like June for sure. I knew that that was like going to be the situation. I just didn't really know when.But with a lot of, a lot of grief, a lot of, man, this sucks. A lot of. We had a really great thing going once I really thought about what I wanted, what I wanted out of my life. I wanted flexibility and freedom.

Sure.

I wanted to be location independent and I wanted my schedule to be more flexible. Even though my schedule was super flexible with my, with my old job, which I was so grateful for. And I wanted to be an illustrator full time.And so through sheer luck, through savings and severance and all the jazz, I was like, okay, I want to try this. I want to really dedicate being a full time illustrator and honestly full time business owner because it's kind of, that's really what it is.I've been freelancing for the past 10 years, more than that really, but freelancing on and off. And I always had a job to like really back me up. This is the, that I'm like, I need to get some income flowing in.

Yeah.

I don't want to burn through my savings and really be like, you know. And I started looking when, before I was looking at job descriptions for development coordinator was my, my role.And I'm looking at job descriptions and looking at my rainbow colored hair and my piercings and I'm just like, do I really want to do this for, you know, my organization?Like I grew into this and dear listener, if you're not watching the video, I have blue box braids, like light blue box braids, multi colored earrings, multicolored earrings. And I have a nostril piercing and a septum piercing. And I'm like, like one, in interviews I'm not putting this away. So that's that like.And two, I just, I don't want to have to be like my previous, previous job where I felt like I was a shell of myself and, and I had to keep things separate.And I really, through my pre, like my actual previous job, I was able to intermingle and marry a few of the, the passions and my, and my creativity in my role. And I just don't know if that was, that's going to be something in a new role in nonprofit world.So I was just like, you know what, I just want to be an illustrator and I want to do this full time. And I was like let's make a plan. I was talking to my partner. I was like, let's make a plan.But then losing my job on the 15th of August, it made me start interrogating a lot of stuff. Why am I still in the States? Because my hobby job was the thing that kept me really, like, in the States.In the States, you know, because it was a work from us remote. And I was like. But I really actually like being overseas. I really prefer to be overseas much more than I prefer to be in the States. If I have to.I prefer to be either home in upstate New York or New York City. And, oh, God, every time I step out when I go to New York City, I feel like money just leaves. Just leaves out of my pocket. But. But it's. But it's.You know, so I.And I really started to interrogate, like, everything, interrogating my relationship to time, my relationship to productivity, my relationship to this perfectionism, relationship to everything. Like, why am I doing this and why am I doing that?And so I was like, okay, well, this allows me to do the things that I really, really want to do, which I want to move abroad. I want to run my business full time. I want to run my business from abroad. And so let's put some systems. Try to put.Try to put systems and plans in place to do this.

Yeah.

So once I made that deliberate decision and that commitment, things like those seeds that I planted for. Ever since I broke into the children's book industry in 2020, those seeds are starting to sprout and grow.

Okay.

You know, the folks that I have communicated with in our community with, they have led to opportunities. I got referred to an agent. After being previously agented and then parting ways, I got referred to an agent.And I reached out, introduced myself, and. And they said, let's set up a call. And I was like, oh, agents don't just set up a call. Oh, my God. Like, so I was like, oh, gosh.And so then it was the longest four to five days of my life waiting for that email back. And, you know, there's that. There's, like, story ideas that I'm, like, percolating in my mind.There's Brown Sugar Graphics, which is my clip art membership that I'm, like, committed to. And there's like, all these things that now I'm not working. I have more brain power and brain space to really, like, hone in and focus on.And I'm like, okay, let's make a really solid structure and do so. That was like. That was Belgium that was all of Belgium, right?

Yeah, it sounds like it was really clarifying for you. It's like a really, like a, like almost like a retreat. Like a artist residency in a way.

Yeah, definitely, like an artist residency. And I wrote to my hosts, like, honestly, you're the pet sit. I'm so grateful that we did this and that you chose us.Because without this time to really be away and navigating this from afar, I was able to really hone in on what did I want. Like, what do I really want.

Yeah.

And then after that close out of the sit, made sure the house was in tip top shape and the cats were all good and chicken was well and the home and the grounds were good. It's a lot of work to Penn State, y'. All. Yeah, I went to. I went to the Netherlands and went there for a week. I loved the Netherlands.The four days I was last year and I was like, oh, my God, I love the Netherlands. But I wanted to be there for just a little bit longer in a different area. And I'm just like, dang it, it's a vibe over here too. And so.And I really, really, really like the Netherlands to the point of just like, I had a chance to like meet up with really cool people. I met like some cool Dutch people. I met cool German people, cool Polish people. And I'm like, y' all are cool. Like, how, what?And it's just, I find that my motto when I travel is good people, good food. Like, as long as you have good people and as long as I have good food, like, that's a successful trip.And you know, of course, like, that surpasses all of it. And so I was super happy that I feel like I found my little country nook and it feels very cozy there for me.And so I'm pursuing what does it look like to live there full time and doing all the, like. I've done research on the Netherlands for at least. At least this is my second year of doing like full on research.And I'm like, I want to speak it into existence, but I haven't even like applied for the visas yet. But it's very much like that is looking like my new home outside of the country.And then just like my heart's in New York and my home is in the Netherlands, but my home is also where I feel like a global citizen and I feel like home is where my people are. And I feel like I. Everywhere I've traveled to Belgium was country number 15.I have, I've had like People or like friends or like acquaintances or just connections like wherever I've gone. And it's been really nice to be able to tap into that. And it's been really fun. It's been incredibly fun.

That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So envious. I love it. I love all the travel.So when you got into illustration though, how did you decide to go into children's illustration?

So over the years of illustration, I feel like I've done it all. And I haven't really done it all, but it feels like I have.I had first started on Yield deviantart for the artists and the people that are about the 30 40s. You're 20 little 20 year old, 25, maybe DeviantArt was like the place if you're like an artist. It was like a social media platform for artists.By artists.

Yeah.

You think? I think it was for artists. I think it was by artists. But. But yeah.And so I was on DeviantArt and this was when I was really, really, really, really young and I learned all about just like different types of artists and different types of like, genres isn't the best word. Yeah.And I thought I was in the cartoons and comics world, then I jumped into the world of anthropomorphic animal art and then I shifted gears into picture books afterwards. And so after taking a course, I took this course called, is it called Dream Machine with an illustrator named Chris Oatley.He had this class called Dream Machine and it was crafting a personal project to break you into your dream career. And I had to choose, did I want to be an animation or did I want to be an illustration? And where, like which? Discipline. And so I was terrified.I was like, I don't want to choose because if I choose, I'm always been a yes and girl. I have adhd. I want to do all the things. And he would always be into my head, just pick one. And I'm like, I can't, I can't just pick one.And he's like, look, even if you pick one, that doesn't mean that you won't, you, you won't be able to go back to your other loves. It's just we have to be very laser focused right now so that once you break in, you're. It's much easier for you to break in.It's like when you're just like punching against like glass and you're like, well, this is a hassle. And it's that pinpoint pressure and then you see the cracks form and then you break In. And I was like, okay.So I illustrated this one piece of a little dog. Cause I was still doing anthro art at the time. And it was a little Dalmatian. And she really loves snails.And I had this little story idea in my head, and I really like that role. And I was like. And I didn't really know much about children's books. I was always fed that, like, children's book illustration is so easy.Writing for kids is so easy. Kids will eat anything. It doesn't matter. And y', all, I'm telling you, there's a reason why there's gatekeepers.Even though there's an asterisk to my. To my statement right now. There's a reason why there's gatekeepers.And there's a reason why there's such quality control when it comes to children's books.Because now our market is so flooded with books that don't honor the kids in the ways that they need either in storytelling, the craft of writing, and the craft of illustration. And that's all I'll say on that matter without being mean, without being perceived as mean. So I was like, you know what?Animation at the time was scary. And it was very terrifying because animation is this big pipeline of all these different moving parts.And your name is on the screen for like 2.5 seconds. And I was like, no, I want my name on a book for in perpetuity. And I want.

I know that's right.

Right By Melquea Smith. Like, that's what I wanted. And I didn't wanna see. See, Mom? There I am. Wait, wait, wait. Record it or rewind it.There I am, the tiny little speck that's me. And sure, I do wanna get into animation. And maybe I will re. Figure out what does that look like?But I was like, maybe picture books might be the world that I wanna be in. And oh, I had to unlearn so much stuff. It was like, oh, children's book illustration. So easy. Because again, I actually. I'll backtrack real quick.So I did cartoons and comics. I went to comic book festivals and comic book shows. I went to. And I got into the comic book world, but not necessarily doing fan art.I did just like my own original artwork.But I met a lot of comic book artists and they would do the huge tables, the New York Comic Cons and anime New York and San Diego's and the Katsukons and all that stuff. Artist alley, the vendors and all that stuff. Like, I got into that world and my local, my Local shows.And I did that for a minute and then I decided to take a break. And in 2019, I was like, I'm exhausted. The thought of doing another show literally exhausts me. And I am going to take a break in 2020.

Woo. And we'll join you. We will join you on this.

The world did too. So, yeah, so that was a good time, I guess, to take a break from doing shows.And then that was during the time that 2019, 2020 was when I took that class and I made the decision to go into children's books. But then I realized that the work that I did at the time, visual storytelling and telling a cohesive story through illustration.So for example, I'd have a character just staring at the audience like, hello, it's me. I'm just standing all cute, looking at the audience and posting it on Instagram, you know, like, that's not how picture books work.The characters are interacting with their environment. They're interacting with other characters.I had to get into my brain that the main character, unless the story is the character narrating to the audience or to the reader, the main character doesn't care that the reader is there. And so it was very much learning about that.And how do you tell a story through art and how do you tell a story through sometimes one picture, but mostly 32 pages. And I also realized too, that I'm not an animator and I'm lazy. I'm not gonna draw thousands of times. So 32 pages, that's about my max.And even then, that's pushing it. So I don't see myself as a drawer. I see myself as a painter. And so, like, drawing is a lot. So I had to learn a lot of stuff.And I'm still learning about just like, how do you visually storytell? So that's kind of how I got in. And then I did a project in 2020 with an organization called Room to Read.Room to Read is an organization that fights illiteracy across the globe. But they originally had a. A program where they were fighting illiteracy in this in the US And I did a book called Two Homes in Omar's Heart.And that was me learning on the job of, like, how do you do this? Completely different circumstances, y'. All. By the way, I did this book in a month. I don't recommend doing a book in a month. But it was just.It was a sprint and it was. It was something. I was like, you know what? I'm going to learn this. I got paid for it. I'm going to do this, you know. And then.Then in 2021, slash, 2022, I signed two contracts where I worked on two picture books. The biggest gift of all that was published by Cluedus Press and then written by Luda Goglushko.And another book that was called the Time Machine, written by Pauline David Sachs and published by Cardinal Rule Press. And those two were actually published in 2023. And I worked on the both at the same time.

I was gonna say, do you meet the author too, or do they just give you this manuscript to work with?

So it depends for biggest gift, the author was the publisher. And so her and I actually worked together. And this is not commonplace, but her and I actually worked together a little bit on the story. A little bit.I had a say a little bit in the story, which was really cool. And I even had a say on the name of the title. And I was, wow. I was like, luda, I. I really love this title. Like, it's. It really feels right.Like, the biggest gift of all just feels right. And so she sat with it. She's like, you're right. All right, let's do it.And I was super excited that we were both able to, like, we really collaborated on the book project together. For Time Machine, I worked with an art director, and the art director was the person. And Pauline does have, like, a stay in, like, what?You know, like, certain things. But I kind of ran wild. I kind of ran wild and did my own thing.But at the same time, I had my art director that was willing to, you know, if I'm in on my own head, like, oh, my God, I'm in my own head. I need help, like, or how can I illustrate this thing? But at the same time, like, make deadline and things like that. You usually.When you're working in traditional publishing and that's when you have a publisher that is pairing the author and the. Pairing the author's work and the illustrator's work together. They usually talk with each other. I may break that rule. Cause there's no law.There's no. I didn't sign a contract that says I'm not allowed to talk to my author. I might. Like, who said that I can't.

Yeah. And it's sort of like a collaboration in a way. Like, it would make sense that you would.

Yes.

Maybe not all the time, but, like, if you had a question or insight or something like that.

Definitely. So insights. So questionnaires, insights, things that. That inform my work.Because there's a reason why we're Kept separate, some sometimes depending on the relationship with it.An author has a vision when they write their, their manuscripts and their story, and the illustrator can have a different vision for the illustrations. And with a picture book, it is a picture book. It's like when you're married, right? I don't believe in the construct of two halves make a whole.It's two wholes make a whole. Like a unit. It's two separate people that make something even bigger and better. And that's the same thing with a picture book.We are two separate entities that are making something even greater than what just our text and just our illustrations can create on its own. But sometimes, depending on egos and depending on whatever is what have yous, one side may try to impose on another side.So they try to keep us a little separate just to prevent that. But for the most part, publishing is filled with a bunch of cinnamon rolls. Especially with, like, our picture book world.Like, we're just a bunch of nerdy people that just want to tell good stories for kids. So for the most part, we're good. You know, it's totally, it's totally fine.But then in a self publishing world, when an author's hiring an illustrator, it could vary. It can vary. Ideally, I do work best when the author comes to me and says, you're the expert here. You're a storyteller through visual medium.I had this vision, but I wrote this story with you and with space in mind. Because your expertise and your value as an illustrator and a storyteller, as a fellow storyteller feeds into this story.And you're gonna get a better book regardless. You're gonna get a really good book. Because that's our. That's as an illustrator, as a professional illustrator, that's our forte.Like, that's what we do.Yeah, yeah, we, we go like, okay, how can we tell this story in an engaging way for the kiddos and the adults and who's reading it and like, all of it.

So, yeah, you're taking like, everybody in account. So, like, even the grandparent who's reading to the kid can also sort of enjoy like, what they're looking at and the kid enjoys it. You know what?I see why, like, yeah, I don't know. I feel like you have friends. I have friends who are like, oh, I'm writing a children's book. I need somebody to illustrate it.

Yeah.

And it does seem like in that conversation, they just think they're gonna hand over these pages and you're just gonna draw what you see. On the page. And like, that's not the process at all. It is. I sort of equate it to like the director talking to the cinematographer.Like, how are we gonna bring this all to life?Maybe not as collaborative as that, but maybe in the self publishing world it's a little bit more collaborative than in something that's more commercial, it sounds like.

Right. And also it's very much realizing that the illustrator, when you have a specialist in storytelling, they're coming with not just illustration.Like they're. I'll say this for myself then I'll just, I'll just gas myself up. I am not coming with just illustration chops.I'm not coming with over two decades of my illustration skill. I'm coming in with visual storytelling. I'm coming in with.Okay, but realistically speaking, as an author and as a self published author, there's so many things that's gonna be stacked up against you in the market of children's books. The market is now over, flooded with AI, with all these things, with stories that just aren't good, with stories and illustrations that aren't good.And now we see that. And also, and for better or for worse, and you know, everyone can write stories and everyone deserves to write stories. That's number one.Everyone deserves to write stories and everyone deserves to have this story told. But also there are going to be, there's gonna be a lot of things stacked up against you.So as an illustrator and as a business person and as a marketer, I'm thinking about all of that as I'm feeding into my illustrations. Your cover is gonna be the thing that's gonna sell your book.

Yeah.

If you're writing a story, your words won't be seen until that person's in the bookstore or online or something, sees that cover and sees the illustrations and they're like, oh, what's this? Or oh, this is really eye catching. Then they look at your story, then they look at how hard you've worked in writing your book.And then I think about the characters. What do we not see in both traditional and self publishing? The types of kids that are not depicted and how can we set you apart?I'd say where my heart lies is kids of different skin tones, kids of different hair textures, and kids with different body types, especially my big kids, because I'm in that intersectionality. And then of course, we've got the myriad of diversity and humanity. But it's like those are my three core things I think about.And I'm like, how can we incorporate that into books. Because that's just not something that we see in books and kids media and in media in general.

For sure, sure, sure. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. How many times have I, like, tried to shop online for clothes and have not seen a fat kid? I'm like, huh, Got it. You know?Or have not seen, like, a bigger body? I'm like, got it. You know, like, all of that. All of that.And so I think about all of that as well when I'm illustrating someone's book or I'm thinking about their book and how does that fit into the market? And yeah, so it's.It's very much when you have, like, a specialist in illustration and children's book illustration, it's so important to make sure that you leave room for them to be able to flourish and to grow and to tell their own stories.Because, yes, you are hiring us for a service and we are a service provider, but also depending on the illustrator, some illustrators are totally cool with, like, direct, like, direction or those guidelines. I'm one of them.

Yeah.

But I also need room to be able to creatively, like, be free and to explore and to really hone that in. Because it becomes fun for me. And then the illustrations, when it's fun for me, the illustrations instantly become fun.And then everyone, everyone wins. Like, you win with sales. You win the sales, the kids win with, like, really immersive illustrations, the parents win with immersive illustrations.And, like, everybody wins. So.

Oh, my gosh. Right? That makes so much sense. Like, when you're happy and having fun, it's gonna show up in the work.Not that it wouldn't show up in the work otherwise, but, like, you wanna enjoy or it wouldn't.

Cause unlike some musicians where their best albums were the ones where they hated each other, sometimes you can tell. Sometimes artists can tell. Like, I don't know if they liked working on this project.And sometimes that's why you try to do that and find an illustrator that's in alignment with what you're. You're looking for. You're working, like, the way that you work and the way that your story is.So you definitely want to be really, really cognizant of just, like, who you hire and how you work with them and are they a good fit, not just their art or. Not just. And I could go, I could wax poetic on when someone says, I wrote a book. I'm looking for a illustrator, any illustrator.I'm like, no, you shouldn't.

Right, Right. Take some pride in your project, man. Take Some pride in it. Talking about any. Like, no, okay, say any. And it's gonna be any.

It will. And I'm working on a resource, a free resource on like, how to find your dream illustrator right now.Because a lot of folks will reach out to me one prematurely. Like they won't the process when they're in the self publishing world or even if they know that they want to self publish, that's another big deal.And so I'm creating a guide on how to find your dream illustrator for your book projects. Because it's not just the art that is like the fit, it's the person. It's the person because you'll be working on this project for months.You're going to be, you're going to be investing thousands of dollars into a person to illustrate your book. You want to make sure that it's fun to work with them and, and to make sure that they align.Like, I feel like this term, the term you're going to hear a lot, dear listener, is in alignment.Because when you find that person or those people that are in alignment with your project, your story, your values, your mission, whatever that is, it's going to be so much easier to work with that, but it's going to be so much better because. And then it'll be fun. It'll be fun.So I want to create that resource so that people can get off on a better foot when they find their dream illustrator. And they know, like, okay, these three people are the people.And so you move from just, I'm looking for any illustrator to I'm looking for my right illustrator or my dream illustrator.

Yeah, that's so sweet.Oh, I, I really appreciate you sort of like setting that up because, yeah, there are folks out here, maybe even our listener, who does want to work with an illustrator or wants to be an illustrator themselves or thinking that they can do this. And it's nice to sort of see the, like, behind the scenes of how it works.Because it's not just anybody, you know, like, no, you want to make sure that, like, styles match up. Like you said everybody, that we're in alignment. Our key word, the alignment. And that is just a good party for everybody. But let me ask you.So say I'm an author and we've decided we're going to work together. You have the manuscript. When you sit down to draw, like, how do you get yourself in the zone?Do you have like some type of fun ritual or like, what's your process like, you know, that you feel comfortable sharing, like, oh, Man.

So it's interesting because at first I panic. I panic. I look, I forget everything I've learned, and then I'm like, I don't know how to do this. And then I go, wait a minute. I panic.But then I read the manuscript over and over and over and over and over again. Usually, the themes I really like to think about, if it's alignment with me, the budget's good, the timeline is good.I can really see myself working on this project. And I almost. When I have a project, I'm a bit of a future planner.I can already kind of see in my mind's eye of, like, what I want it to be, even though it will definitely change and shift. None of the books that I've illustrated have actually become the thing that I've seen in my mind's eye.But it's like, can I see a clear picture of what I can work towards? Then I'll read the. I read the manuscript a lot. A lot. A lot, a lot. And there's this term called word pictures that I really like.Through the author's words are there pictures that have that pop up in my mind. And I try to sketch those down because that's a good sign that I can actually work on the project, and I'm not kind of grasping at straws.So that's the first step.Then I like to really nail down character first, because that's really my favorite part of, like, figuring out the characters, figuring out who these kids are or who the family is or whoever's in the. In the book project. And then I'm still building out my. I'm still building out my process. So then I do this thing called thumbnailing where I try to.And I paginate a manuscript. So the manuscript's usually just written and as it is.And then we do this imagination where we break down the picture book or break down the manuscript based on what pages are where. So ideally. And this helps with the page turn.Page turns are pretty much like, you know, when you're on Netflix and you're left on a cliffhanger, and you're like, oh, my God, I have to watch the next episode. That's kind of the same thing with each page in a children's book. You want to encourage the reader, entice the reader to flip the next page.And that is. It's a. It's a skill set of itself, but it's really. But it's really fun to be able to utilize that.And there's, like, little parts and there's like a lot of intricate parts that go into it. Once we get into the pagination, we think of, like, the flow of the story. How does it work? Do we have the climax? Do we not all those other things.Then we think about the composition of each page. So in the illustration side of things, thumbnailing, which is basically just like these ugly little, tiny, tiny, tiny little sketches.And it's just shapes of what do. Where are these characters? Where are the characters? What's on the page? How is the page structured visually? Is it a single page? Is it a vignette?Or like a spot illustration? Where it's just like an illustration with white around it is a full spread, which is basically two pages.When you open up a book and you just see full illustration or like, how does this work? You're just. You use that as a way of composition, not only in its initial page, but as a full book.So it's a lot of, like, planning, a lot of planning that goes into that. The author comes into play when they. I need to know who are they publishing with, if they're self published.So if they're going to be self publishing, who. And so if it's IngramSpark or is it their local publisher, is it like a local printer?And the reason why I do that is because I need to know the specs of your final book. And usually depending on who you publish with, they'll have those specifications.If your book is eight and a half by eight and a half, like a square book, then open. It'll be 17 by eight and a half. Yeah. That's math, huh? Yeah, yeah, 17 by eight and a half.And I take all of that into consideration when I am working on the thumbnails, because if I'm designing this book, like, how the illustrations will be designed, I'm taking that ratio into consideration because if your book changes, if it's not 8 and a half by 8 and a half, and it's actually 8 and a half by 11 when it's closed. Well, now we have. Now we've got a different size book. And now, now I've got to redesign that and. Yes, yeah, and.And it's better to find that on the thumbnail phase than finding that in full color phase because that'll be very expensive and it just doesn't work well. So I try to keep.I try to get all of that information ahead of time and I ask my published authors, like, all of that ahead of time because we'll save you a lot of money if you know that ahead of time. Yeah. And so. So. So with all of that said, then we get into rough sketches. Then we get into.Once we got the rough sketches approved, then we get into the final inks. And the final inks are kind of like things are set in stone in terms of, like, the line art of the characters.Other artists will have different working processes, but I do use, like, line art. I use line art with my work, which is funny. Cause I used to hate doing line art when I was younger. Hated doing inks. Oh, my God. I just always painted.And then I get into the flat colors. Now, flat color is another way to storytell. Color is a way to storytell. So if you have a moody scene, you can use muted colors or grays.If a character is.A character is usually bub and happy, and the character's going through a really emotional scene, you can use muted colors to tell the story, and you can feed that into the whole story. Animation. It's called a color script. There it is.Every movie, every movie, every TV show, every animated film, even your regular, like, certain stores all have color and color psychology that goes into it. So I use all of my knowledge and color and use that and weave that into storytelling. You can use a motif for color.So let's say, I don't know, a character like Sunflower is or whatever, and they lose their spark. Or something happens in the wintertime and something happens in spring.And now they, you know, you get those little hints of yellow throughout the book. And then it's a big. The full spread, the climax is fully yellow. Sunflower yellow. Like, you can use that in your story.And so I use that animation term of color scripting into picture books as well. What color are we starting with? What color are we ending with? And then how do we flow it? How does it flow all in between?And then once we got that color script nailed down, once we got the flat colors nailed down, then I blow everything up, and then we do final art. And that's where I get to let loose and have all my shading and my highlights and my.All my details and the shine of the eyes and sparkles and, oh, you can tell I'm a painter.

You can tell you're, like, so in love with this process, this piece of the process.

Yeah, that part is like, oh, I love it. Because that's where the. To me, that's where the real magic happens, where it's like, oh, this is starting to come alive. So.But all of that planning has to happen first, and then I get my juicy dessert where I get to paint and have all my fun colors. And that's kind of the rough like format of that.And then if I'm working with a self published author, I will usually meet with them and then I say, all right, who is your audience? Do you have an email list? Have you talked to these people on your email list yet? How's your social media looking?Because while this book project is being worked on in the 6, 812 months, however long it takes, you gotta get some buy in. You've gotta get people really excited for this project. So while we're getting this project worked on, we're gonna be talking about this book.Because you gotta get your people ready and invested in this book before it's even made. Because once your book is published, ideally you already have pre orders before this bad boy is even published. You wanna, wow. You have to.And so that's the marketer side of me.

I was gonna say, wow. And you offer this like in your package, like of working with you, you're giving this insight.

Yeah.

And you go above and beyond. Clearly.

I do. And it's not. I haven't yet worked with a self published author where it just hasn't been in alignment.Where like I've had a publisher, I've had an author and they're like, I want to work with you. And everything was in alignment and we were able to work with each other. But I've been finding people and I've been connecting with people.I'm like, yes, this is my ideal client.And we're in conversation where we're talking and I'm like, oh, I just talked to somebody who is in the financial literacy world and wants to write a children's book and has worked with it, has hired and worked with an editor. So it's like, check. You're willing to financially invest in your project. That's always a check mark for me.They see their children's book as an asset for their business. Check. Because I also see that in my work. I see this as an asset for my business.And I also see that as a reflection of me and the quality of work that I bring. And then also I love financial literacy. And that's been something that has been taught, not even taught to me.I had to teach it to myself just because of coming from a background that is of a disenfranchised background and having to teach myself how to, you know, what not to do because unfortunately my parents wasn't taught, you know, how to like invest in this and that. And so I taught myself that. And so financial literacy is like a thing that I really enjoy.So when we kept talking, I was like, oh, this person is totally in alignment with what I would. I would want to partner with. So it's highly likely that we will work together. But I see all of that and I.And I just love to give that advice when we're working, like when we're working together. And yeah, so it. So all of that. I like to marry all of that together, because that's what I do.And then when I worked with my with biggest gift, I ended up partnering with the marketing team because I had my own, like, social media graphics that I created and all this other stuff. Cause I have a little bit of a design background, a little bit not. I'm more of an illustrator versus designer.

But is biggest gift a book that you did? What's the biggest.

So when sometimes you'll hear me say, it's like there's sometimes the biggest gift of all is a big lame. So I'll just say biggest gift.

Okay, but that's a book.

Yeah, the biggest gift.

That's the name of a book. Okay.

Is a book. And then the Time Machine is also another book that I worked on.And then when I worked on that book, I partnered with the marketing team and was like, here are all the assets that I created for my own Instagram and social media launch. Here's all the videos that I've created. You know, have at it. If there's something that you want to collaborate with, let's collaborate together.But yeah, here's my Dropbox file of all the stuff that I had created for, like, leading up to the launch. And then we can just partner together. Because again, illustrator, guests, business owner. Yes.So you wear all the hats and you have to do all of that, which is a lot. It's a lot. But it's also fun. But also, I can't wait to get to the point where I get to hire someone over language control.

Let me tell you. I can't wait for that. I was thinking about that just with social media, I'm like, I get.I am not into social media, but I get the visibility piece of it. And especially, like, I think also, like, with my podcast too, I'm like, I don't want to do it.But then I'm also like, you know, I talked to this person. Like, I spoke to you. It only helps to like add it on there. You know, it was like a thank you. And then like, here it also is it's like.Like to remind people of the podcast, but, man, it is just, like, so much. And then there's been periods where I'm like, I'm going off of social media, but then I'm like, I feel like, oh, that's not fair.If I, like, talk to Melquea and they're on my Instagram and then I speak to everybody else and like, I'm like, oh, by the way, I'm not on Instagram anymore. I don't know. It's. I just can't wait until I'm able to hire somebody to do all the little. Those, like, little tedious things.Cause I'm like, you can run it. You know, I don't want to deal with method. You just, like, put something up there.

Yeah. And also realize, like, what is most important.So for me, like, I show up to my email list every week I show up to my email list, and every week I show up for Brown Sugar Graphics, which is my Clipart membership. I send. Which I need to actually send today's Brown Sugar graphic. It's Tuesday, but I'll do that. I'll do that today. Like, that. Those.That's like my bare minimum when it comes to that. Like, I haven't actually posted on social media because I'm. I'm gonna be shifting my. My messaging and shifting a little bit on that.But that's like, my main thing. And there's. There's seasons, there's ebbs and flows. Like, there's more on social and more on that.And honestly, I actually like posting on stories a lot, which is really. Yeah. Like, I'll post, like, what am I working on? Or the illustrations I'm working on or where I'm traveling to.So that I usually do that on stories as a way of connecting.And then also, also, like, I use social media as a way to, like, comment on people's profiles and joke with people that are in my industry or joke with people outside of my industry that I'd like to work with, cheer people on. So really think about, like, what is my goal? And sometimes posting is the goal, but sometimes posting doesn't have to be.For me, I'm like, I don't need to do it. Yeah. I. As long as I. Showing up on my. My email list, that's the most important thing for me.

Yeah. So let's talk about your membership. Clipart or. No, it's not. Is it Clipart? Is that what you call it?

Clipart?

Okay. Cause I always think of, like, Clipart. I didn't know if that was like a Microsoft Word thing or.

You know, it does seem that way, and it's.

Yeah.

And that it seems more accessible to say Clipart. Because when people say Clipart, that's what.

They know what you're talking about.

Right.

But like, Brown Sugar Graphics is a membership.

Yes.

Of black and brown kids that we can subscribe to. Tell us about it. Yeah, yeah.

So in publishing. Well, I got this idea through a membership that I'm a part of. It's an email marketing membership. And I. And I pay $9 a month, and I get email.Email templates where I get to show. I get to modify it for myself. And I get so much more than just the templates.And the person that runs it is named Liz Wilcox, and it's literally called the email marketing membership. Ended up asking Liz a question in one of our coaching calls, and she mentioned she ended up tapping the shoulders of somebody named Warren Carlisle.And he jumped into the. Was like.Gave his insight, and just kind of put a seed in my brain that was like, could it be a membership where you provide illustration something or others? Like, what does that look like?And I'm like, interesting, because the initial idea was I'm a service provider, and I directly do trade my services and my time for income. And that gets exhausting. There has to be a way to be able to scale in a way where I get to still show up and provide the service of illustration.But if it's three people, 30 people, 300 people, 3,000 people can still get the value of my illustration work. And so I just kind of thought that was just kind of like a seed in my head.

Yeah.

Fast forward a couple months as I'm still thinking about this idea.I think about an idea where I could provide clip art of kids as I'm in the children's book world, and I get to use my storytelling and my children's book background as, like, as an asset to the clip art that I create.And then I started just kind of shopping the idea around to fellow authors, homeschool parents, people that create content for kids, and even nonprofit organizations and people that do literacy programs. They're like, oh, my God, that would be amazing. I don't even see clip art of black and brown kids. Like you see clip art of black and brown kids.And then I hit a wall. I find three or I find ten, and that's it. And I'm sick and tired of using the same illustrations or. Or like the.The black girl with the two puffs or the Little boy with the killmonger locks or, you know, just like the same, same kids over and over again, the same skin tone.And I, and I started looking, I started doing a little bit of market research and I went on Etsy, I went on TeacherSpayTeachers.com and I went on like your usual Pexels and Shutterst.I saw like a severe lack of the diversity, like sheer diversity in the myriad of humanity of black kids and the way that they express themselves and the way. And I was like, yeah, at Sea was just filled with a bunch of AI. So I was just like, oh, boy, that's not even. There's no care put into that.You see literally the same soulless eyes, the same facial features, the same skin tone, the same soft hair. That's not even. There's no. There's bare barely any braids. There's barely any, you know, differences when it comes to that. Shutterstock. Eh.You kind of see it, but it's not, it's just, there's. There's something missing. And the same thing with like, and teachers, by teachers. It's. It's. I don't have much.Not like, I don't have anything nice to say. I don't have anything that's constructively critic criticizing to say. So it just leaves. It leaves a lot for me to be desired and I can do it better.So I said, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be the solution to do. To doing this.And so my goal with Brown Sugar Graphics is I want to be black centered but not exclusive, where I get to show the humanity of black and brown kids and I get to show the vast difference of different ways of people, kids expressing themselves and families expressing themselves through illustration that you can use everywhere week on your.On your social media, your website, your website banners, your whatever projects that you're working on that you can use, and every week you'll get a new piece. And so I decided, I said, well, okay, well, in order for me to do this and to show up every week, I need to have different themes.So right now, for the next two months, we have kids dancing. So I've got. I've got kids dancing from a Jamaican kid jamming all the way to a Mexican girl that's twirling around.I've got a Southeast Asian kid that's boogieing. I've got all different. I've got a kid in a wheelchair that's jamming as well. And I realized that there's more to diversity than just skin tone.It's not just skin dark. That's, like, the main focus.But then we also have, you know, kids that are of different abilities, kids that have different limb differences, facial differences, name it like. And so I'm exploring that as well. And it's. And it's just like, imagine having a piece of clip art or having a whole set of clip art.Art of kids with vitiligo, of kids with limb differences and kids with different hair textures and facial expressions and ways that they express themselves joyfully and authentically that you have that whole library that you can use for your work.

I think it's a brilliant idea.

Thank you.

I do wonder if. If I'm an illustrator or not an illustrator, if I'm, like, a young author, could I use the graphics for. Even though it might not match up. Right.Like, it wouldn't have that page turn, maybe. But could I use them for that or is it not for that?

So it's not for that. And one.

One is because, like, don't be trying to hustle.

Picture books are my bread and butter. I do require to be credited. And so those books that are being published need to be under my name.And I wanna be really strategic in the way that the books that reflect my brand. So it isn't for that.It's more for, like, if you're creating, like, let's say you're a nonprofit organization or even an author, you're a nonprofit organization, and you're crafting, like, a kid's story time. Right. And you need graphics to add a little oomph to your story time.

Yeah. Like a library.

Yeah. Or even if you are an author and you're doing a school visit and you're doing presentations for your school visits, you can use that for that.You can use that for hey, Find Me in the Long Island Children's Museum. And you're creating graphics for that, and you have brown sugar graphics, and you're using those for that. So it's not necessarily four books.And I specifically ask for that to not happen just because it's too close to the world that I'm in.

Sure, sure. Yeah. It was just a thug because I could totally see somebody's cousin.

Yeah.

Trying to make a. Make a book out of your.

Yeah. And you can't, per se. You.You can't per se, do that if it's like, a short story or, like, if you're a teacher and let's say, like, a scenario, you're a teacher and you want to do, like, a story time within your class and you're. You're doing like the ad lib thing where you're crafting with your.To get your kids to really think or your homeschool parent and stuff, stuff like that. Totally fine. For personal use. Totally. Okay. Once we get into. I have a commercial license that I do sell as well.So let's say you are crafting, you know, printables that you want to resell and want to incorporate my illustrations in that. That commercial license. You're good to go. You know, you're good to go.

Or like a kid skincare brand commercial license.

Yeah. And we can look into that or all. All different things like that. So those. Those types of things are totally fine.

Yeah.

And as I grow in scale, that'll shift. But for now, like, I just want to keep it.I want to keep it simple because I don't want to get too in the weeds so that I want to have the library and craft this thing and then we go back into making it more of it, like, really honing in on. Okay, how can we make this fair for my members and also make it fair for me as the artist that's working on this project as well?

Yeah. I was even thinking, like, flashcards, like, if I'm a homeschool parent, like making flashcards or coloring page or something like that.

Totally, totally. Oh, my gosh. Totally. I had a freebie, and I think I still will be. Yeah, I'll be providing that too. When people sign up, I'll.I have 30 different ideas on how to use your brown sugar graphics. So you might. You might be coming in saying, I'm a homeschool parent and I want to craft flashcards. I'm like, yeah, but there's 30.There's 29 other ways that you can use flashcards.

Cause I could even see, like, if you are a parent and now you want to do like, Christmas cards or you want to do like, birthday invitations.Like, this is such, like, a really individual way to be able to do that, you know, especially if, like, my child is a little person or they have like the limb difference, like you said, you know, like the whole, like, variety listener that Melquea is creating in this database of all these different children is just amazing. They have. They're all over the place. They have everything. Yeah.

And I just, I just. That's my goal is just like every Tuesday I'm sending that email.I don't care if it's every Tuesday from either 6am that I send this email or if I send it at 11:59 I'm trying to. Every Tuesday. All right, Every Tuesday. I had a moment where I was on a cruise recently and I was. Clock was ticking. I did not pack.For some reason, I couldn't pack. I forgot my tablet charger and I had only a limited amount of time to wrap up an illustration and send the email. And the Internet was abysmal.I was racing against the clock. I ended up purchasing like super fast wifi. Cause I was like, I can't cheap out. I said, every Tuesday, dagnabbit. And I'm about to think, yeah.So I was like. So I emailed like, hi, like, hi, Stephanie. I'm at 7% on my tablet, on the seven C's trying to get this thing out for you.And I said I was going to show up every Tuesday. And here we are, direct. Here's a direct download. I gotta go. I'll see you, I'll see you next week. Hopefully on dry land.

Like, oh, I love that. That's so sweet. That's so funny. Oh my God.

Next time I won't do that. Like next time I want to like, like get everything scheduled in. So I was like, this last minute stuff's not working out.We're, we're, you know, I work, I do work in collections, so I have like the collection of kids dancing. My next next one for November is Kids with Pets. December is going to be Members Choice.So I'm going to be polling my members and asking, what do you want for December? Cuz now, now I've already, like, I have all my ideas, but I want you to weigh in on what you want in your inbox. This is, I'm not.My expertise is illustration. Yeah, y' all are the one who are the parents. Y' all are the one who are the educators.You are the ones who impact kids in the specific ways that you do. What is something that's missing that would make your lives like, beneficial and easier and your careers impacting kids easier?And how can my illustrations feed into that? And so I'm ready to like poll the audience like this. What do you want? And I really love that interactivity.

Yeah, that's really cool. I love reality tv, which I mention all the time on this podcast. And I've been on a deep dive back to Little Women.It's like Little Women Atlanta, Little Women Los Angeles. But mostly I watch Little Women Atlanta.And I could just see like when you were thinking about like polling your audience, I don't know, I thought about like little, little people, kids that are like celebrating Kwanzaa or Hanukkah or stuff like that. It's such a fun show.By the way, if you listener, if you watch Little Women Atlanta, they're always up to something and they are such a group of like sweet friends that have each other's back. They be fighting, they'll make up, they go dancing, they are always up thing. I just, I love that, love that show so much.And then it came back as like a people, like if you catch clips on YouTube, like people are reading, like the comments are like, who's watching now? Even if it was like a 10 year old show, like 5 year old show, but they just came back with like a reunion. So everybody's going crazy about that.But it's such, it's like one of my shows I keep on the background while I'm like cleaning or editing or something like that.But yeah, just because like I was watching that, it made me think of like, like all of the mothers on Little Women, like their kids, like seeing little representation for their kids. So that's why I'm like on a. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, Maquia, as we like wrap up here, how can we learn more about you?

Oh my gosh.So the best way to learn about me is to get on my website, prettykittypaintings.com you get to see my art, you get to see who I am, you get to learn about, about all the things. If you click on the little pink button that says surprise, I'll. I'll actually give you the surprise.You'll get three free illustrations by signing up three free illustrations that you can use today for the projects that you're working on. And then you'll get more information about my membership as well. And it'll be really, really fun to have you, have you join us.

Yeah, that would be so fun.I swear, listener, if you have a business like where you need to like focus on children, I really think that $9 a month for this membership of like graphics of like black and brown kids of all bodies is super important. Like, how can you not have this?

Yeah, it's amazing. And I can't promise that it's going to stay $9 above friends, but you better lock in. Better lock in.

You better lock in. Yeah.

Because once that, once that library goes up. Up.

Yeah.

Price may change. But for now, I'm committing to $9 a month to keep it accessible for my teachers, to keep it accessible for my parents.Just because these, this is a resource that is sorely needed.

Yeah. Awesome. Oh, My gosh. Well, thank you so much for talking with me.

Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.

Hey, so before we go, I just want to say how grateful I am for this conversation. Talking with Melquea reminded me that creativity doesn't have to be rushed, boxed in, or disconnected from our values.It can be thoughtful, it can be expansive, and it can actually support the kind of life we want to live. You know the kind the jazzy ballin out, sequins, glitter. Am I talking to myself? Baseball caps. What? You know, the kind of life we want to live.Okay, is it just me that wants to live with glitter and baseball caps? You do too, right? You do too. Come on.Make sure you check out Malquia's work, her children's books, illustrations, and her Brown Sugar graphics membership. Especially if you work with kids, teach, parent, or create in any way. All the links to that, it will be in the show notes.And if you are an author of a children's book, hit Melquea up. She gonna hook you up. Okay? She gonna draw your ish beautifully. All right, listen.Thank you so much for listening, for being curious, and for sticking around for all of these conversations here at noseyAF and and I will see you next time. This has been another episode of Nosy af. I'm your host, Stephanie Graham.If you liked what you heard today, go ahead and give nosy AF some love by leaving a 5 star rating and review wherever you're listening. It helps folks who find the show think, ooh, if they like Nosy af, I might like it too.You can find full show notes and Transcripts ads nosy af.com and while you're there, sign up for my newsletter. Good stuff only where I share studio stories, fresh art, messy ideas and each month's episodes straight to your inbox.Thank you so much for your time today. Until next time, stay curious and take care. Bye.